Discussion:
What times they were.....
(too old to reply)
Ragnar
2010-05-05 03:14:15 UTC
Permalink
I was reading the archives, recalling the days when this group (and
most of Usenet) was not a spam-ridden wasteland.

Is anyone still around? There were so many memorable people: (in no
particular order) John Griffin, Ron Egan, Bob August, Robert Risch,
Robert Hickey, MissMarple, Paige Montoya, Karen/Kattail/snooshoe/
whomever she wants to be today, the inimitable Betty, John Junot, Jon
Beaver, Bob Miller, MA (still riding the Simpson victory train no
doubt), Thomas Jabine, Totaljust, Confused, Portctygirl, Mitch Farmer,
Janis72, Melissa Park (aka DFook) and so many others I am doubtless
forgetting, including (reluctantly) the soc.singles cretins the never-
to-be-sufficiently-damned (for this only) John Griffin dragged into
the group including the failed paintball referee Jim Dutton, Mr/
Captain/Colonel/today's delusion Canada, Chris Belway, etc.

And then there's Prien. Nothing more need be said.

I of course wouldn't want to omit my friend (and frequent adversary
re: OJ) Dick Wagner, who sadly is no longer with us. Dick did a lot of
original research on the case which has proven to be valuable. I never
agreed with his stated purpose to prove that A) all of the evidence
was genuine and B) OJ was still innocent but I always enjoyed debating
with him. What little civility remained in the group left us when Dick
did.

I'd like to think that most of us are still around and could debate
the issue of OJ's guilt had we all less important issues

I came to the group (as Ragnar, at least) relatively late in the game
compared to all those who fought the good fight from the beginning.

There were those who discussed the case, those who obstructed the
case, and those who simply made noise. I'd say we all had fun here.

So who is left? Who still cares? Who still has something to say?

Ragnar
Puma
2010-05-05 14:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
I was reading the archives, recalling the days when this group (and
most of Usenet) was not a spam-ridden wasteland.
Is anyone still around? There were so many memorable people: (in no
particular order) John Griffin, Ron Egan, Bob August, Robert Risch,
Robert Hickey, MissMarple, Paige Montoya, Karen/Kattail/snooshoe/
whomever she wants to be today, the inimitable Betty, John Junot, Jon
Beaver, Bob Miller, MA (still riding the Simpson victory train no
doubt), Thomas Jabine, Totaljust, Confused, Portctygirl, Mitch Farmer,
Janis72, Melissa Park (aka DFook) and so many others I am doubtless
forgetting, including (reluctantly) the soc.singles cretins the never-
to-be-sufficiently-damned (for this only) John Griffin dragged into
the group including the failed paintball referee Jim Dutton, Mr/
Captain/Colonel/today's delusion Canada, Chris Belway, etc.
And then there's Prien. Nothing more need be said.
I of course wouldn't want to omit my friend (and frequent adversary
re: OJ) Dick Wagner, who sadly is no longer with us. Dick did a lot of
original research on the case which has proven to be valuable. I never
agreed with his stated purpose to prove that A) all of the evidence
was genuine and B) OJ was still innocent but I always enjoyed debating
with him. What little civility remained in the group left us when Dick
did.
I'd like to think that most of us are still around and could debate
the issue of OJ's guilt had we all less important issues
I came to the group (as Ragnar, at least) relatively late in the game
compared to all those who fought the good fight from the beginning.
There were those who discussed the case, those who obstructed the
case, and those who simply made noise. I'd say we all had fun here.
So who is left? Who still cares? Who still has something to say?
Ragnar
Ragnar! Good to see you around. The group, as a group, is dead. Sometimes
a stray will wander in from the internet and post something but other
than the odd drop-by, it's DOA.

Portcitygirl/Janis 72 is still around as we keep in touch frequently.
Griffin is still around 'cause he was here about 2 weeks ago. Rumor had
it that Betty died. Everyone else probably has some semblance of a life
and doesn't come this way anymore.

"Crazy Bob" is probably locked away and heavily medicated somewhere, as
is Prien, if their internet behaviors carried over to real life. (My
speculation.)

Someone posted a much shorter (and much less eloquent) eulogy a couple of
weeks ago. Griffin answered. That disspelled the rumor he was dead...

I answered him in this screen name -- Puma -- because I changed it from
"Hickey" to slow the Kow/Kattail from stalking so frequently. There was
rumor *she* was dead. (No such luck.)

The group heated up about 2 years ago toward the end of 2007 or 2008, I
forget. It was mostly personal attacks and the "OJ is great" bunch. You
know that drill.

It filled up with new pro-j's from who-knows-where and a good flame fest
was had. Kow starting most and receiving her due but not before some
"new" persona came and gave a gallant defense. He lost. Most was cross-
posted so that infused a few new people. But it was short-lived.

The only one I would add that you missed would be Dan Wedeking. The rest
of the regulars that you mention did make for a lively bunch. Again, as
you state, before the influx of the soc.singles assclowns and mental
midgets.

I am ashamed to admit I still check this group. But from force of habit
and the fact that the name is in my Usenet newsreader and shows a post if
and when one shows, I generally abstain. Of course there are no posts
(!!!) so it's not hard. Who knows, maybe this'll start something!

Robert
Ragnar
2010-05-06 00:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
I was reading the archives, recalling the days when this group (and
most of Usenet) was not a spam-ridden wasteland.
Is anyone still around? There were so many memorable people: (in no
particular order) John Griffin, Ron Egan, Bob August, Robert Risch,
Robert Hickey, MissMarple, Paige Montoya, Karen/Kattail/snooshoe/
whomever she wants to be today, the inimitable Betty, John Junot, Jon
Beaver, Bob Miller, MA (still riding the Simpson victory train no
doubt), Thomas Jabine, Totaljust, Confused, Portctygirl, Mitch Farmer,
Janis72, Melissa Park (aka DFook) and so many others I am doubtless
forgetting, including (reluctantly) the soc.singles cretins the never-
to-be-sufficiently-damned (for this only) John Griffin dragged into
the group including the failed paintball referee Jim Dutton, Mr/
Captain/Colonel/today's delusion Canada, Chris Belway, etc.
And then there's Prien. Nothing more need be said.
I of course wouldn't want to omit my friend (and frequent adversary
re: OJ) Dick Wagner, who sadly is no longer with us. Dick did a lot of
original research on the case which has proven to be valuable. I never
agreed with his stated purpose to prove that A) all of the evidence
was genuine and B) OJ was still innocent but I always enjoyed debating
with him. What little civility remained in the group left us when Dick
did.
I'd like to think that most of us are still around and could debate
the issue of OJ's guilt had we all less important issues
I came to the group (as Ragnar, at least) relatively late in the game
compared to all those who fought the good fight from the beginning.
There were those who discussed the case, those who obstructed the
case, and those who simply made noise. I'd say we all had fun here.
So who is left? Who still cares? Who still has something to say?
Ragnar
Ragnar! Good to see you around. The group, as a group, is dead. Sometimes
a stray will wander in from the internet and post something but other
than the odd drop-by, it's DOA.
Portcitygirl/Janis 72 is still around as we keep in touch frequently.
Griffin is still around 'cause he was here about 2 weeks ago. Rumor had
it that Betty died. Everyone else probably has some semblance of a life
and doesn't come this way anymore.
"Crazy Bob" is probably locked away and heavily medicated somewhere, as
is Prien, if their internet behaviors carried over to real life. (My
speculation.)
Someone posted a much shorter (and much less eloquent) eulogy a couple of
weeks ago. Griffin answered. That disspelled the rumor he was dead...
I answered him in this screen name -- Puma -- because I changed it from
"Hickey" to slow the Kow/Kattail from stalking so frequently. There was
rumor *she* was dead. (No such luck.)
The group heated up about 2 years ago toward the end of 2007 or 2008, I
forget. It was mostly personal attacks and the "OJ is great" bunch. You
know that drill.
It filled up with new pro-j's from who-knows-where and a good flame fest
was had. Kow starting most and receiving her due but not before some
"new" persona came and gave a gallant defense. He lost. Most was cross-
posted so that infused a few new people. But it was short-lived.
The only one I would add that you missed would be Dan Wedeking. The rest
of the regulars that you mention did make for a lively bunch. Again, as
you state, before the influx of the soc.singles assclowns and mental
midgets.
I am ashamed to admit I still check this group. But from force of habit
and the fact that the name is in my Usenet newsreader and shows a post if
and when one shows, I generally abstain. Of course there are no posts
(!!!) so it's not hard. Who knows, maybe this'll start something!
Robert
Robert,

It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been
able to escape Ms. Anderson completely. I'd have thought she would
have given up by now, but apparently no such luck.

I too am afraid that Betty is no longer with us. I did a search for
her e-mail address and it seems to have disappeared completely.
Granted I'm not using the same hotmail addy I was using before, but
even Betty's name is nowhere to be found. It's a shame, really. We
butted heads frequently, and heatedly. She was a tough old bird.
Sometimes I think in rare moments of honesty she knew the truth: She
just couldn't admit it.

Then there's Prien, MA and Bob Miller, none of whom would know the
truth even if it whacked them upside the head. Lord knows we did so
often enough.

It's funny: old habits die hard. I was reading an old thread where
Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood (remember THAT one?) and I actually went looking for
the transcript and found it, and sure enough Prien had quoted him out
of context. Then I caught myself: so what? Respond to an 8 year old
thread in a dead newsgroup?

Prien himself seems to have disappeared from the face of the Earth as
well. At least nothing from his old e-mail address has been posted in
about 6 years. I'd hate to think the world is being deprived of his
talk about Reichstag fires and how steel maintains 100% of its
strength right up to the melting point.

It is nice to see that some of us have lives now and are well.

Best to you,

Ragnar
Puma
2010-05-06 18:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Robert,
It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been
able to escape Ms. Anderson completely. I'd have thought she would
have given up by now, but apparently no such luck.
Kow/Kattail hasn't surfaced in a couple of years. She had stalked a guy
in Jacksonville, FL but he fought back and involved the cops.

He and I got together (literally, when he came thru New Orleans),
compared notes, had breakfast and I think the double-team (and the cops)
pretty much put Kow off to different pastures.
Post by Ragnar
I too am afraid that Betty is no longer with us. I did a search for
her e-mail address and it seems to have disappeared completely...
Sometimes I think in rare moments of honesty she knew the truth: She
just couldn't admit it.
Agreed. She and I had some (strange) email correspondence. I remember
seeing something here long ago that postulated that she had died. I don't
know who posted it nor the veracity of the information but her
disappearance and your recent research seems to bear that out. She was a
piece of work.
Post by Ragnar
Then there's Prien, MA and Bob Miller, none of whom would know the
truth even if it whacked them upside the head. Lord knows we did so
often enough.
It's funny: old habits die hard. I was reading an old thread where
Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood (remember THAT one?) and I actually went looking for
the transcript and found it, and sure enough Prien had quoted him out
of context. Then I caught myself: so what? Respond to an 8 year old
thread in a dead newsgroup?
True, true and true. And any response, 8 year or 80 year, would've fallen
on (purposely) deaf ears anyway.
Post by Ragnar
Prien himself seems to have disappeared from the face of the Earth as
well. At least nothing from his old e-mail address has been posted in
about 6 years. I'd hate to think the world is being deprived of his
talk about Reichstag fires and how steel maintains 100% of its
strength right up to the melting point.
Point out to me where the negative part of your comment is...;-)

Yeah, life goes on. More than we can say for the killer's victims, but I
think this group in its "good old days" was much amusing. Nothing lasts
forever, unless you consider density more as a skeletal shortcoming of
pro-j's than any other measurement.

May Odin be with you.
Incubus
2010-06-22 16:41:06 UTC
Permalink
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I had
the time.

I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they say
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-17 00:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I had
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they say
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I find when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago? Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinating with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you NoJ's
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.

Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized having
whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely that
would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told the
truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally, completely
and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the frauds
deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases against
Simpson.

Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.

First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I voiced
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point." Only a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence. First, I never
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if its
strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane, were
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have been
weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints. That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch with
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing even
though portions of some floors
collapsed. These collapsed floors did not pancake the building to the
ground. Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of structural
engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the Bush
administration's version of
those events. Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe in the
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.

Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how the
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who used
the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression against
any who they identified as
their enemies. In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, threw their
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers on
Hitler. Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration camp in
Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else is to
come. I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down. But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40% of the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it was
either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen. In other
words, it was the Reichstag
fire. There are now even buttons proclaiming it.

And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.

So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit for
seeing this long before anyone else did. But I do that all the time.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.

Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim Baden
admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood." But then you also gave up posting anything to show
it since it was so long ago.

It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight and
expose your lies again.

First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when I
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said that
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should have
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when aspiration
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries. Second, I also pointed out that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner would
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L
had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her injuries,
Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which aspiration would
occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled
these conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they had.
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that I
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and pointed
to the opposite. Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a bald
faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood. The blood in his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather than
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his respiratory
tract. Finally, what I did in that thread and after was to point to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical conditions
and the aspiration issue.

So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden out
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this issue
and my assessment of his claims. I'll even make it easy for you and
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on that
testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments that go
beyond this issue):

Baden on aspirating blood into lungs

Prien <***@aol.com>
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of the
absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought was
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At the
head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the significance of
the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance to
his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable the
significance of the medical findings about the incised throat wound.
Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all sides
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination on
August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden agrees:
WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LIKELY WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD FLOW
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD HAVE
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues (all
emphasis
in testimony is added) :
Q YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
(Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of the
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER BACK,
PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.
MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES DR. LAKSHMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S TESTIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS, HAVING
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT SLIT?
DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
A YES.
Q DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
A WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that her neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO THE
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the prosecution's
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the autopsy
description of the
condition of those organs).
Q IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY?
A I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENERAL TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's nonsense
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is essentially
whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
Q AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
A UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO HIS OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note- no
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the lung
injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD
CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT. (There
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends on
whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case) and
whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATION. AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST AGAINST
THE CHEST.
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF THE NECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE AREA,
AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same
point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
(Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either stupid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
Q WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A GENERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS
CRIME.
The critical follow up question to Baden's statement of the
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would obviously
have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries that
Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the air passages
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of blood. It
is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air passage or was
aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked question that is left
is whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the air passages
with the injury Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing.
The hint to what this answer necessarily must have been is in the
question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS THERE
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive answer
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation is
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly and
denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped the
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about the
significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the physiology
involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe (trachea)
had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were working),
blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs. As
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER THE
PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note again:
whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely on whether
(1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding into it
(not directly answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3) if she
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of any
blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been alive when
throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of causal
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will flow
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a living
person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will
cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it
nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not have lived
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a cut
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled the
blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which would
have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after the
injury
occurred.
(End of citation).

So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the delusional
folly of your claiming otherwise.
Puma
2010-07-17 15:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I had
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they say
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I find when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago? Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinating with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you NoJ's
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized having
whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely that
would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told the
truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally, completely
and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the frauds
deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases against
Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I voiced
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point." Only a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence. First, I never
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if its
strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane, were
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have been
weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints. That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch with
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing even
though portions of some floors
collapsed. These collapsed floors did not pancake the building to the
ground. Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of structural
engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the Bush
administration's version of
those events. Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe in the
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how the
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who used
the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression against
any who they identified as
their enemies. In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, threw their
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers on
Hitler. Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration camp in
Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else is to
come. I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down. But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40% of the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it was
either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen. In other
words, it was the Reichstag
fire. There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit for
seeing this long before anyone else did. But I do that all the time.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim Baden
admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood." But then you also gave up posting anything to show
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight and
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when I
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said that
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should have
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when aspiration
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries. Second, I also pointed out that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner would
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L
had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her injuries,
Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which aspiration would
occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled
these conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they had.
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that I
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and pointed
to the opposite. Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a bald
faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood. The blood in his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather than
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his respiratory
tract. Finally, what I did in that thread and after was to point to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical conditions
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden out
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this issue
and my assessment of his claims. I'll even make it easy for you and
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on that
testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of the
absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought was
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At the
head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the significance of
the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance to
his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable the
significance of the medical findings about the incised throat wound.
Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all sides
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination on
August 10,
1995.
WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LIKELY WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD FLOW
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD HAVE
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues (all
emphasis
Q YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
(Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of the
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER BACK,
PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.
MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES DR. LAKSHMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S TESTIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS, HAVING
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT SLIT?
DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
A YES.
Q DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
A WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that her neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO THE
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the prosecution's
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the autopsy
description of the
condition of those organs).
Q IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY?
A I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENERAL TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's nonsense
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is essentially
whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
Q AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
A UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO HIS OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note- no
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the lung
injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD
CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT. (There
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends on
whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case) and
whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATION. AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST AGAINST
THE CHEST.
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF THE NECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE AREA,
AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same
point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
(Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either stupid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
Q WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A GENERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS
CRIME.
The critical follow up question to Baden's statement of the
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would obviously
have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries that
Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the air passages
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of blood. It
is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air passage or was
aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked question that is left
is whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the air passages
with the injury Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing.
The hint to what this answer necessarily must have been is in the
question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS THERE
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive answer
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation is
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly and
denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped the
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about the
significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the physiology
involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe (trachea)
had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were working),
blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs. As
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER THE
PERSON
whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely on whether
(1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding into it
(not directly answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3) if she
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of any
blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been alive when
throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of causal
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will flow
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a living
person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will
cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it
nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not have lived
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a cut
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled the
blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which would
have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after the
injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the delusional
folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron and Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...

Puma
p***@aol.com
2010-07-17 17:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they say
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I find when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinating with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you NoJ's
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized having
whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely that
would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told the
truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally, completely
and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the frauds
deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases against
Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I voiced
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point."  Only a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I never
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if its
strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane, were
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have been
weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch with
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing even
though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the building to the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of structural
engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the Bush
administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe in the
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how the
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who used
the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression against
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, threw their
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers on
Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration camp in
Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else is to
come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40% of the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it was
either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In other
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit for
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all the time.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim Baden
admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anything to show
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight and
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when I
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said that
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should have
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when aspiration
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointed out that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner would
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L
had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her injuries,
Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which aspiration would
occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled
these conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they had.
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that I
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and pointed
to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a bald
faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.  The blood in his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather than
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his respiratory
tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and after was to point to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical conditions
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden out
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this issue
and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for you and
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on that
testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of the
absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought was
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At the
head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the significance of
the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance to
his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable the
significance of the medical findings about the incised throat wound.
Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all sides
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination on
August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LIKELY WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD FLOW
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD HAVE
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues (all
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of the
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER BACK,
PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.
   MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES DR. LAKSHMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S TESTIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS, HAVING
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT SLIT?
      DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that her neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO THE
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the prosecution's
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the autopsy
description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENERAL TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's nonsense
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is essentially
whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO HIS OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note- no
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the lung
injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD
CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT. (There
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends on
whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case) and
whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
      INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATION. AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST AGAINST
THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF THE NECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE AREA,
AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same
point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either stupid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A GENERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS
CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statement of the
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would obviously
have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries that
Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the air passages
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of blood. It
is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air passage or was
aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked question that is left
is whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the air passages
with the injury Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing.
The hint to what this answer necessarily must have been is in the
question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS THERE
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive answer
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation is
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly and
denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped the
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about the
significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the physiology
involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe (trachea)
had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were working),
blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs. As
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER THE
PERSON
whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely on whether
(1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding into it
(not directly answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3) if she
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of any
blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been alive when
throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of causal
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will flow
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a living
person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will
cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it
nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not have lived
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a cut
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled the
blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which would
have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after the
injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the delusional
folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
Post by Puma
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does. Not even the simplem minded are stupid as
you, though. Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejects
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of architect,
engineers, pilots, military officers and the intelligence agencies of
every major country about 911.

I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even simplest
facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided about
why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.

I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.; The
Maine was blown up by the Spanish. Oswald killed Kennedy. Pigs can
fly. And the earth is flat.

You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional fantasies
are truths.

Dream on.

Prien
Puma
2010-07-17 22:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they say
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I find
when I
Post by Puma
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinating
with
Post by Puma
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you NoJ's
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized having
whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely that
would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told the
truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally, completely
and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the frauds
deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases against
Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I voiced
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point."  On
ly a
Post by Puma
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I never
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if its
strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane, were
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have been
weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch with
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing even
though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the building to
the
Post by Puma
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of structural
engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the Bush
administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe in t
he
Post by Puma
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how the
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who used
the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression against
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, threw t
heir
Post by Puma
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers on
Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration camp in
Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else is to
come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40% of
the
Post by Puma
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it was
either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In other
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit for
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all the ti
me.
Post by Puma
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim Baden
admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anything to s
how
Post by Puma
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight and
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when I
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said that
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should have
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointed out
that
Post by Puma
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner would
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L
had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her injuries,
Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which aspiration would
occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled
these conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they had.
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that I
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and pointed
to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a bald
faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.  The blood in
his
Post by Puma
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather than
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his respiratory
tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and after was to point
to
Post by Puma
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden out
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this issue
and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for you a
nd
Post by Puma
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on that
testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of the
absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought was
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At the
head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the significance of
the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance to
his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable the
significance of the medical findings about the incised throat wound.
Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all sides
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination on
August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LIKEL
Y WAS THE
Post by Puma
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD FLOW
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD HAVE
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues (all
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of th
e
Post by Puma
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPS
ON COULD
Post by Puma
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER BACK,
PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.
   MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES DR. LAKS
HMANAN'S
Post by Puma
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S TES
TIMONY
Post by Puma
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS, HAVING
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT SLIT?
      DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that her
neck was
Post by Puma
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO THE
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the autopsy
description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBLE M
EDICAL
Post by Puma
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENERAL
TERMS, BUT I
Post by Puma
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's nonsense
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is essentially
whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO HIS
OR HER LUNGS
Post by Puma
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note- no
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the lung
injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD
CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT. (There
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends on
whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case) and
whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
      INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATION.
AND THAT COULD
Post by Puma
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST AGAINST
THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF THE N
ECK. IT HAS TO
Post by Puma
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE AREA,
AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same
point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either stu
pid
Post by Puma
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A GEN
ERAL
Post by Puma
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS
CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statement of t
he
Post by Puma
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would obviously
have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries that
Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the air passages
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of blood. It
is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air passage or was
aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked question that is left
is whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the air passages
with the injury Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing.
The hint to what this answer necessarily must have been is in the
question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS THERE
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive answer
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation is
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly and
denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped the
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about the
significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the physiology
involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe (trachea)
had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were working),
blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs. As
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER THE
PERSON
whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely on whether
(1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding into it
(not directly answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3) if she
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of any
blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been alive when
throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of causal
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will flow
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a living
person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will
cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it
nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not have lived
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a cut
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled the
blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which would
have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after the
injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the delusional
folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
Post by Puma
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does. Not even the simplem minded are stupid as
you, though. Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejects
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of architect,
engineers, pilots, military officers and the intelligence agencies of
every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even simplest
facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided about
why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.; The
Maine was blown up by the Spanish. Oswald killed Kennedy. Pigs can
fly. And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional fantasies
are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
p***@aol.com
2010-07-18 15:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and whenever
something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I find
when I
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinating
with
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized having
whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely that
would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told the
truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally, completely
and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the frauds
deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases against
Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point."  On
ly a
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I never
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if its
strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have been
weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing even
though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the building to
 the
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of structural
engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the Bush
administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe in t
he
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who used
the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, threw t
heir
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers on
Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration camp in
Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else is to
come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40% of
 the
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it was
either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In other
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all the ti
me.
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim Baden
admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anything to s
how
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight
and
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointed out
that
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L
had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her injuries,
Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which aspiration would
occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled
these conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that
I
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a bald
faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.  The blood in
 his
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his respiratory
tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and after was to point
to
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for you a
nd
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on that
testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of the
absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At the
head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the significance of
the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance to
his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable the
significance of the medical findings about the incised throat wound.
Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination on
August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LIKEL
Y WAS THE
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of th
e
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPS
ON COULD
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER BACK,
PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.
   MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES DR. LAKS
HMANAN'S
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S TES
TIMONY
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT SLIT?
      DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that her
neck was
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hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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Post by Puma
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBLE M
EDICAL
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EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENERAL
TERMS, BUT I
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THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which is essentially
whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO HIS
 OR HER LUNGS
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
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Post by Puma
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evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the lung
injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD
CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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Post by Puma
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends on
whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case) and
whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
      INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATION.
AND THAT COULD
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HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
Post by Incubus
Post by Puma
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF THE N
ECK. IT HAS TO
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DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE AREA,
AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same
point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either stu
pid
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or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A GEN
ERAL
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CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS
CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statement of t
he
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conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would obviously
have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries that
Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the air
passages
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were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of blood. It
is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air passage or was
aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked question that is left
is whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the air passages
with the injury Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing.
The hint to what this answer necessarily must have been is in the
question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
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ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly and
denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about the
significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the physiology
involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe (trachea)
had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were working),
blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
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Post by Puma
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Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER THE
PERSON
whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely on whether
(1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding into it
(not directly answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
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was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of any
blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been alive when
throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of
causal
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statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a living
person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will
cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it
nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not have
lived
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long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
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throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled the
blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which would
have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after the
injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the delusional
folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
Post by Puma
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are stupid as
you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejects
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of architect,
engineers, pilots, military officers and the intelligence agencies of
every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even simplest
facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided about
why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.;  The
Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy.  Pigs can
fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional fantasies
are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims you
brain dead moroins. You don't even try because you know any response
will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from Prien..

You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy and
that you as all NoJs are know noithings. But you believe all the
liess the government tells you. Good boy. Here is a bone for you.
Nice puppy.

Prien
Puma
2010-07-19 14:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
news:972ffd88-0fa5-4152-939f-
Post by Incubus
news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch
it. If they
say
Post by Incubus
Post by Incubus
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I fi
nd
Post by Incubus
when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinati
ng
Post by Incubus
with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized
having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely
that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told
the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the
frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point." Â
 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I nev
er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if
its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any
airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have
been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing
even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the building
to
Post by Incubus
 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the
Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe i
n t
Post by Incubus
he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
Post by Incubus
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who
used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
Post by Incubus
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, thre
w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers
on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration
camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else
is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40%
of
Post by Incubus
 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it
was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In oth
er
Post by Incubus
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any
meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
Post by Incubus
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all the
ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim
Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anything t
o s
Post by Incubus
how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record
straight
and
Post by Incubus
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
Post by Incubus
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointed o
ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
Post by Incubus
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when
Dr. L had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her
injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed
with the conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's
injuries fulfilled these conditions so that she should have
aspirated blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole
had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a
bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.  The
blood
in
Post by Incubus
 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
Post by Incubus
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and
after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
Post by Incubus
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
Post by Incubus
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for yo
u a
Post by Incubus
nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on
that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of
the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At
the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance
to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable
the significance of the medical findings about the incised
throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination
on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LI
KEL
Post by Incubus
Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
Post by Incubus
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
Post by Incubus
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of
th
Post by Incubus
e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SI
MPS
Post by Incubus
ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER
BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER
THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN
HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT
MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S
TES
Post by Incubus
TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
Post by Incubus
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT
SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that h
er
Post by Incubus
neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
Post by Incubus
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBL
E M
Post by Incubus
EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
Post by Incubus
CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENER
AL
Post by Incubus
TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO
HIS
Post by Incubus
 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the
lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING
THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH
AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG
ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case)
and whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood
that gets into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
      INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATIO
N.
Post by Incubus
AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
Post by Incubus
THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF TH
E N
Post by Incubus
ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE
AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO
INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just
made the same point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either
stu
Post by Incubus
pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A
GEN
Post by Incubus
ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR
PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statement o
f t
Post by Incubus
he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries
that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the
air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air
passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked
question that is left is whether blood necessarily would have
gotten into the air passages with the injury Nicole sustained if
the injury had been sustained while she was still alive and
breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily must have
been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
Post by Incubus
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's
explanation
is
Post by Incubus
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly
and denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he
sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about
the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER
THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely
on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding
into it (not directly answered but had to be if she was alive);
and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of
any blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been
alive when throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
Post by Incubus
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a
living person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and
nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into
the lungs. If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe were cut
and there is no blood in it nor was any aspirated into the
lungs, the person could not have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled
the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which
would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after
the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are stupid
as
Post by Incubus
you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejects
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of architect,
engineers, pilots, military officers and the intelligence agencies
of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even simplest
facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided
about why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.;  T
he
Post by Incubus
Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy.  P
igs can
Post by Incubus
fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims you
brain dead moroins. You don't even try because you know any response
will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy and
that you as all NoJs are know noithings. But you believe all the
liess the government tells you. Good boy. Here is a bone for you.
Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.

And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.

We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.

Idiot.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-19 23:10:00 UTC
Permalink
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Post by p***@aol.com
news:972ffd88-0fa5-4152-939f-
Post by Incubus
news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll watch
it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I fi
nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucinati
ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized
having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so freely
that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told
the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the
frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to the
facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk about
Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting point." Â
 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I nev
er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100% if
its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the two
towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane,
were
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never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have
been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into their
footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing
even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the building
 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce the
Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believe i
n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities who
used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, thre
w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial powers
on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration
camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who else
is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person to
identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to 40%
 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning it
was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In oth
er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director of
Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high ranking
Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a Mossad
operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing any
meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all the
 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden out
context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to claim
Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anything t
o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out of
context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated blood when
I
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have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointed o
ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr. L's
conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood when
Dr. L had indicated that one would expect aspiration with her
injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed
with the conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming whether Nicole's
injuries fulfilled these conditions so that she should have
aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nicole
had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was a
bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.  The
blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and
after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for yo
u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly on
that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up comments
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance of
the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
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my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations. At
the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that related
directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold significance
to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and unquestionable
the significance of the medical findings about the incised
throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
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in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct examination
on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST LI
KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use of
 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN SI
MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER
BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER
THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN
HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT
MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN'S
TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT
SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (that h
er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONSIBL
E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GENER
AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A WRONG
OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD INTO
HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
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evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from the
lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING
THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH
AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG
ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in Nicole's case)
and whether the person lived long enough to aspirate the blood
that gets into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did not.)
      INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO THE LUNGS IS ASPIRATIO
N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF TH
E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE
AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO
INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just
made the same point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is either
stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON A
GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR
PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statement o
f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries
that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the
air
passages
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were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air
passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked
question that is left is whether blood necessarily would have
gotten into the air passages with the injury Nicole sustained if
the injury had been sustained while she was still alive and
breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily must have
been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
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ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it directly
and denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain. So he
sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made about
the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
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Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on "WHETHER
THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends solely
on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding
into it (not directly answered but had to be if she was alive);
and (3) if
she
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was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of
any blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been
alive when throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of
causal
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statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a
living person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and
nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into
the lungs. If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe were cut
and there is no blood in it nor was any aspirated into the
lungs, the person could not have
lived
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long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
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throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have inhaled
the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which
would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after
the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are stupid
as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejects
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of architect,
engineers, pilots, military officers and the intelligence agencies
of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even simplest
facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided
about why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.;  T
he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy.  P
igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims you
brain dead moroins.  You don't even try because you know any response
will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy and
that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you believe all the
liess the government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a bone for you.
Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the inane
productuion of his brainless herad.

So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as explanation
iof how the buildings collapes. Could you tell us greatswamie which
plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the collapse of that building.
Only if you know, idiot, but if none did, what plane speaks for the
collpase of that building.

Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft frame for
the planes that took off as the flights from Boston actually were
found having crashed into the any building. This should be a piece of
cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each aircraft
frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had access to. I'll
even make it simple for you. To prove your point about the speaking
planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck boxes recovered
from the planes match the black boxes that were installed in those air
frames.

All you need to do is post the real facts.

Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that you are
a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who can be fooled
all the time.

Prien
Puma
2010-07-20 14:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
innews:598db52b-0c45-46cd-b989-5405
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news:972ffd88-0fa5-4152-939f-
Post by Incubus
news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll
watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I
fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucin
ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized
having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so
freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told
the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the
frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to
the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk
about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
Post by p***@aol.com
 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I
nev
Post by p***@aol.com
er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100%
if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the
two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane,
were
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never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have
been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into
their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing
even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the build
ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce
the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believ
e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities
who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, t
hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration
camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who
else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person
to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to
40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning
it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In
oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director
of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high
ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a
Mossad operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons
and the Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing
any meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all
the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden
out context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to
claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anythin
g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out
of context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated
blood when
I
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have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointe
d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr.
L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood
when Dr. L had indicated that one would expect aspiration
with her injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed that
he disagreed with the conclusion and stated the conditions
under which aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions so that
she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nico
le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was
a bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.
 T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and
after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for
yo
Post by p***@aol.com
u a
Post by Incubus
nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly
on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance
of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations.
At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings about
the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST
LI
Post by p***@aol.com
KEL
Post by Incubus
Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS
WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
Post by Incubus
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
Post by Incubus
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
Post by Incubus
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use
of
Post by p***@aol.com
 th
Post by Incubus
e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN
SI
Post by p***@aol.com
MPS
Post by Incubus
ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER
BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER
THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD
IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT
MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
Post by Incubus
HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN
'S
Post by p***@aol.com
TES
Post by Incubus
TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
Post by Incubus
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT
SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (tha
t h
Post by p***@aol.com
er
Post by Incubus
neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
Post by Incubus
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
Post by Incubus
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
Post by Incubus
description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONS
IBL
Post by p***@aol.com
E M
Post by Incubus
EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
Post by Incubus
CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GE
NER
Post by p***@aol.com
AL
Post by Incubus
TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A
WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the
coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD IN
TO
Post by p***@aol.com
HIS
Post by Incubus
 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from
the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND
GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE
MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON
LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough to
aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe -- which
Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO
THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
Post by p***@aol.com
N.
Post by Incubus
AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
Post by Incubus
THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF
TH
Post by p***@aol.com
E N
Post by Incubus
ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE
AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO
INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I
just made the same point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is eith
er
Post by p***@aol.com
stu
Post by Incubus
pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON
A
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GEN
Post by Incubus
ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR
PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statemen
t o
Post by p***@aol.com
f t
Post by Incubus
he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries
that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the
air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air
passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked
question that is left is whether blood necessarily would have
gotten into the air passages with the injury Nicole sustained
if the injury had been sustained while she was still alive
and breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily must
have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH
A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly
responsive
answer
Post by Incubus
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation
is
Post by Incubus
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain.
So he sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made
about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding
into it (not directly answered but had to be if she was
alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of
any blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been
alive when throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
Post by Incubus
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a
living person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and
nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated)
into the lungs. If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe
were cut and there is no blood in it nor was any aspirated
into the lungs, the person could not have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which
would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after
the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it?
Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are stup
id
Post by p***@aol.com
as
Post by Incubus
you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejec
ts
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I
provided about why your simplemninded believes are all based on
lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.;
Â
 T
Post by p***@aol.com
he
Post by Incubus
Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy. Â
 P
Post by p***@aol.com
igs can
Post by Incubus
fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims you
brain dead moroins.  You don't even try because you know any
response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from
Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy and
that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you believe all the
liess the government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a bone for you.
Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the inane
productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as explanation
iof how the buildings collapes. Could you tell us greatswamie which
plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the collapse of that building.
Only if you know, idiot, but if none did, what plane speaks for the
collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft frame for
the planes that took off as the flights from Boston actually were
found having crashed into the any building. This should be a piece of
cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each aircraft
frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had access to. I'll
even make it simple for you. To prove your point about the speaking
planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck boxes recovered
from the planes match the black boxes that were installed in those air
frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations (wrong
ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's "facts." Your
statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions from your defective
reason.
Post by p***@aol.com
Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that you are
a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who can be fooled
all the time.
Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-20 22:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
innews:598db52b-0c45-46cd-b989-5405
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news:972ffd88-0fa5-4152-939f-
Post by Incubus
news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I think) when I
had
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll
watch it. If they
say
Post by Incubus
Post by Incubus
something that I know to be incorrect (from having read the
transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what do I
 fi
Post by p***@aol.com
nd
Post by Incubus
when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallucin
ati
Post by p***@aol.com
ng
Post by Incubus
with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you fantasized
having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so
freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who told
the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all the
frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead to
the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk
about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
Post by p***@aol.com
 On
Post by Incubus
ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First, I
nev
Post by p***@aol.com
er
Post by Incubus
claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains 100%
if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in the
two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could have
been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into
their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained standing
even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the build
ing
Post by p***@aol.com
 to
Post by Incubus
 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly denounce
the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to believ
e i
Post by p***@aol.com
n t
Post by Incubus
he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
Post by Incubus
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities
who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
Post by Incubus
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies, t
hre
Post by p***@aol.com
w t
Post by Incubus
heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the concentration
camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who
else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first person
to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up to
40%
Post by p***@aol.com
 of
Post by Incubus
 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job - meaning
it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  In
oth
Post by p***@aol.com
er
Post by Incubus
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former Director
of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high
ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911 was a
Mossad operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons
and the Administration, and covered up by them by suppressing
any meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
Post by Incubus
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that all
the
Post by p***@aol.com
 ti
Post by Incubus
me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted Baden
out context when in "an old thread where Prien was trying to
claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anythin
g t
Post by p***@aol.com
o s
Post by Incubus
how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight
and
Post by Incubus
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden out
of context to claim Baden said Nicole should have aspirated
blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
Post by Incubus
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
Post by Incubus
would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also pointe
d o
Post by p***@aol.com
ut
Post by Incubus
that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
Post by Incubus
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr.
L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate blood
when Dr. L had indicated that one would expect aspiration
with her injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed that
he disagreed with the conclusion and stated the conditions
under which aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions so that
she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I explained it, that
I
Post by Incubus
never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
Post by Incubus
to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that Nico
le
Post by p***@aol.com
had
Post by Incubus
failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which was
a bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any blood.
 T
he
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Incubus
blood
 in
Post by Incubus
 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
Post by Incubus
blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread and
after was to poi
nt
Post by Incubus
to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
Post by Incubus
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
Post by Incubus
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
Post by Incubus
and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy for
 yo
Post by p***@aol.com
u a
Post by Incubus
nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing directly
on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the follow up
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the significance
of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and interpretations.
At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings about
the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT MOST
 LI
Post by p***@aol.com
KEL
Post by Incubus
Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS
WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
Post by Incubus
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
Post by Incubus
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
Post by Incubus
emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the use
 of
Post by p***@aol.com
 th
Post by Incubus
e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BROWN
 SI
Post by p***@aol.com
MPS
Post by Incubus
ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON HER
BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER
THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD
IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. THAT
MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
Post by Incubus
HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMANAN
'S
Post by p***@aol.com
TES
Post by Incubus
TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
Post by Incubus
HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER THROAT
SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (tha
t h
Post by p***@aol.com
er
Post by Incubus
neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
Post by Incubus
LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
Post by Incubus
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
Post by Incubus
description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESPONS
IBL
Post by p***@aol.com
E M
Post by Incubus
EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
Post by Incubus
CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN GE
NER
Post by p***@aol.com
AL
Post by Incubus
TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A
WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the
coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD IN
TO
Post by p***@aol.com
HIS
Post by Incubus
 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs from
the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND
GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE
MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON
LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough to
aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe -- which
Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION OF BLOOD INTO
THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
Post by p***@aol.com
N.
Post by Incubus
AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
Post by Incubus
THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION OF
 TH
Post by p***@aol.com
E N
Post by Incubus
ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR PASSAGE
AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO
INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I
just made the same point above and which is what I said
in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is eith
er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this case.
  Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ON
 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR OPINION
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE PERPETRATOR OR
PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's statemen
t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the injuries
that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a certainty that the
air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the air
passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical unasked
question that is left is whether blood necessarily would have
gotten into the air passages with the injury Nicole sustained
if the injury had been sustained while she was still alive
and breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily must
have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH
A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The directly
responsive
answer
Post by Incubus
would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the bargain.
So he sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made
about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is bleeding
into it (not directly answered but had to be if she was
alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence of
any blood in the lungs that must have been there had she been
alive when throat was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing of a
living person through the hole cut in the windpipe (and
nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled (aspirated)
into the lungs. If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe
were cut and there is no blood in it nor was any aspirated
into the lungs, the person could not have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
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throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury which
would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period after
the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are stup
id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already rejec
ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that I
provided about why your simplemninded believes are all based on
lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.;
Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy. Â
 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims you
brain dead moroins.  You don't even try because you know any
response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from
Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy and
that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you believe all the
liess the government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a bone for you.
Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the inane
productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as explanation
iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell us greatswamie which
plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the collapse of that building.
Only if you know, idiot, but if none did, what plane speaks for the
collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft frame for
the planes that took off as the flights from Boston actually were
found having crashed into the any building.  This should be a piece of
cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each aircraft
frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had access to.  I'll
even make it simple for you.  To prove your point about the speaking
planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck boxes recovered
from the planes match the black boxes that were installed in those air
frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations (wrong
ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's "facts." Your
statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions from your defective
reason.
I did post facts. You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole story
about the collapses. I'm not claiming as facts because I say so, you
claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts. Okay, provide the
evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC that you
claim is the fact that tells all about how the structure collapsed.
Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I certainly don't have to
provide any evience to prove it when I declare that to be false. No
interpretation necessary. Now, to prove me wrong, about this,all you
need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how the
building collapsed. Yoiu made the claim. Now prove it. Alos no
inrterpretation necessary. Of course, if you provide no such proof,
then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an idiot or a
liar.
Post by Puma
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that you are
a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who can be fooled
all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of 911.
Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that the airframes
that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on 911 were also
indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the 911 crash sites.
There is a simpe way for you to do this. Every aircraft frame has
literally hundred in serially numbered indestructible parts that are
diocunebnted to have been installed in that airframe when it took
off. Now provide authenticated evidence that proves that any of such
srially numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical airframe
that took off that mrning and was hijacked.

This should be a piee of cake. There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened. It is, of course, impossible
for this to be true unless that commission positively identified with
established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft frames
that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones that crashed
at the 911 crash sites. All the necessary documented evidence should
then be in that report. Unless, of course, the report is nothing but
a pack of lies that covered up what actually happened.

So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong. Go for it.
Post by Puma
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right, And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are just
another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by

Prien
Puma
2010-07-21 21:01:42 UTC
Permalink
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innews:598db52b-0c45-46cd-b989-5405
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I
think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll
watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having read
the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it
eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what d
o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallu
cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so
freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who
told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all
the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead
to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk
about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First,
I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains
100% if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in
the two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could
have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into
their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the bu
ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to bel
iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely pointed to how
the
Post by Incubus
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities
who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify
aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies
, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who
else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first
person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up
to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  
In
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oth
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er
Post by Incubus
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high
ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911
was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by
neo-cons and the Administration, and covered up by them by
suppressing any meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that a
ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted
Baden out context when in "an old thread where Prien was
trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anyt
hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record straight
and
Post by Incubus
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden
out of context to claim Baden said Nicole should have
aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she should
have
Post by Incubus
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also poi
nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
Post by Incubus
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr.
L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate
blood when Dr. L had indicated that one would expect
aspiration with her injuries, Baden dodged the question,
affirmed that he disagreed with the conclusion and stated
the conditions under which aspiration would occur, without
ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these
conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
Post by Incubus
to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that N
ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which
was a bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any
blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread an
d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I quoted Baden
out
Post by Incubus
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy
for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings
about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT M
OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS
WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the
use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BR
OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON
HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND
SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE
WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I
OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMA
NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (
tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESP
ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN
GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A
WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the
coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD
IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs
from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB
WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE
WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND
THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough to
aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe -- which
Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION OF
BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION
OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR
PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO
BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH
HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point above and
which is what I said in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is e
ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this
case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS
ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's state
men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the
air passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical
unasked question that is left is whether blood necessarily
would have gotten into the air passages with the injury
Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained while
she was still alive and breathing. The hint to what this
answer necessarily must have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
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ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION
WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The
directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the
bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made
about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to be if
she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence
of any blood in the lungs that must have been there had
she been alive when throat was cut definitely answers this
questions). Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the
following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut, blood will
flow
Post by Incubus
into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing
of a living person through the hole cut in the windpipe
(and nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled
(aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the other hand, a
person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it nor
was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not
have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury
which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period
after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are s
tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already re
jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that
I provided about why your simplemninded believes are all
based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy.
Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims
you brain dead moroins.  You don't even try because you know any
response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from
Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy
and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you believe
all the liess the government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a
bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the inane
productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as explanation
iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell us greatswamie
which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the collapse of that
building. Only if you know, idiot, but if none did, what plane
speaks for the collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft frame
for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston actually
were found having crashed into the any building.  This should be a
piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each aircraft
frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had access to.
 I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your point about the
speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck boxes
recovered from the planes match the black boxes that were installed
in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations
(wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's
"facts." Your statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions from
your defective reason.
I did post facts. You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole story
about the collapses. I'm not claiming as facts because I say so, you
claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts. Okay, provide the
evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC that you
claim is the fact that tells all about how the structure collapsed.
Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I certainly don't have to
provide any evience to prove it when I declare that to be false. No
interpretation necessary. Now, to prove me wrong, about this,all you
need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how the
building collapsed. Yoiu made the claim. Now prove it. Alos no
inrterpretation necessary. Of course, if you provide no such proof,
then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an idiot or a
liar.
Post by p***@aol.com
Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that you
are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who can be
fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of 911.
Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that the airframes
that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on 911 were also
indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the 911 crash sites.
There is a simpe way for you to do this. Every aircraft frame has
literally hundred in serially numbered indestructible parts that are
diocunebnted to have been installed in that airframe when it took
off. Now provide authenticated evidence that proves that any of such
srially numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical airframe
that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake. There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened. It is, of course, impossible
for this to be true unless that commission positively identified with
established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft frames
that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones that crashed
at the 911 crash sites. All the necessary documented evidence should
then be in that report. Unless, of course, the report is nothing but
a pack of lies that covered up what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong. Go for it.
Post by p***@aol.com
Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right, And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are just
another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
p***@aol.com
2010-07-21 22:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
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innews:36e525fa-10c9-4d46-aee6-e884
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innews:598db52b-0c45-46cd-b989-5405
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news:972ffd88-0fa5-4152-939f-
Post by Incubus
news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
Post by Incubus
I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I
think) when I
had
Post by Incubus
the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time, and
whenever something to do with the case comes on TV, I'll
watch it. If they
say
Post by Incubus
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having read
the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over it
eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but what d
o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and hallu
cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around so
freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone who
told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that totally,
completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed all
the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff cases
against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go instead
to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his talk
about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  First,
 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains
100% if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned in
the two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any
airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame could
have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down into
their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd was
demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the bu
ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to bel
iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely
pointed to how
the
Post by Incubus
two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by authorities
who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
Post by Incubus
any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the commies
, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows who
else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first
person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this, up
to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.  
In
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oth
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er
Post by Incubus
words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with high
ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain that 911
was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt, facilitated by
neo-cons and the Administration, and covered up by them by
suppressing any meaningful investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take full
credit
for
Post by Incubus
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do that a
ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted
Baden out context when in "an old thread where Prien was
trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should have
aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up posting anyt
hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the record
straight
and
Post by Incubus
expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted Baden
out of context to claim Baden said Nicole should have
aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is clear
I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether she
should
have
Post by Incubus
aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also poi
nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical examiner
would
Post by Incubus
agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with Dr.
L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to aspirate
blood when Dr. L had indicated that one would expect
aspiration with her injuries, Baden dodged the question,
affirmed that he disagreed with the conclusion and stated
the conditions under which aspiration would occur, without
ever affirming whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these
conditions so that she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said that N
ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so, which
was a bald faced lie because Goldman never aspirated any
blood.  T
he
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Post by Incubus
blood
 in
Post by Incubus
 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the lungs
rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread an
d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
Post by Incubus
and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I
quoted Baden
out
Post by Incubus
of context with respect to any portion of his testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it easy
for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all the
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what they
thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings
about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were practiced
by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
    WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT THAT M
OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST CONSCIOUSNESS
WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE IN
BLOOD
FLOW
Post by Incubus
TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND
SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr. L.
interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and testimony
ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding the
use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE BR
OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON
HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND
SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE
WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR HONOR, I
OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKSHMA
NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMONY?
   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED IT (
tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF
BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
Post by Incubus
testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A RESP
ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE IN
 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK IT'S A
WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees with the
coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BLOOD
 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR. GOLDMAN
DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs
from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB
WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE
WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND
THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough to
aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe -- which
Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION OF
BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENSION
 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR
PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO
BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH
HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point above and
which is what I said in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he is e
ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this
case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's state
men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs would
obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry of
blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact entered the
air passage or was aspirated into the lungs. The critical
unasked question that is left is whether blood necessarily
would have gotten into the air passages with the injury
Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained while
she was still alive and breathing. The hint to what this
answer necessarily must have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer directly,
namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION
WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The
directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's
explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the
bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first made
about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of the
physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's windpipe
(trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into
her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To note
again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs depends
solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to be if
she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the absence
of any blood in the lungs that must have been there had
she been alive when throat was cut definitely answers this
questions). Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the
following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut,
blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the breathing
of a living person through the hole cut in the windpipe
(and nose/mouth) will cause the blood to be inhaled
(aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the other hand, a
person's windpipe were cut and there is no blood in it nor
was any aspirated into the lungs, the person could not
have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The
person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury
which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period
after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again the
delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded are s
tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already re
jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom that
I provided about why your simplemninded believes are all
based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy.
Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your delusional
fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with evidence a
single point I raised each which which demolishes your claims
you brain dead moroins.  You don't even try because you know any
response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts from
Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity, idiocy
and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you believe
all the liess the government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a
bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted ad
infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the inane
productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as explanation
iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell us greatswamie
which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the collapse of that
building. Only if you know, idiot, but if none did, what plane
speaks for the collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft frame
for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston actually
were found having crashed into the any building.  This should be a
piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each aircraft
frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had access to.
 I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your point about the
speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck boxes
recovered from the planes match the black boxes that were installed
in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations
(wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's
"facts." Your statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions from
your defective reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole story
about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say so, you
claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.  Okay, provide the
evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC that you
claim is the fact that tells all about how the structure collapsed.
Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I certainly don't have to
provide any evience to prove it when I declare that to be false.  No
interpretation  necessary.  Now, to prove me wrong, about this,all you
need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how the
building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove it.  Alos no
inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such proof,
then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an idiot or a
liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that you
are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who can be
fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of 911.
Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that the airframes
that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on 911 were also
indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the 911 crash sites.
There is a simpe way for you to do this.  Every aircraft frame has
literally hundred in serially numbered indestructible parts that are
diocunebnted to have been installed in that airframe when it took
off.  Now provide authenticated evidence that proves that any of such
srially numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical airframe
that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened.  It is, of course, impossible
for this to be true unless that commission positively identified with
established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft frames
that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones that crashed
at the 911 crash sites.  All the necessary documented evidence should
then be in that report.  Unless, of course, the report is nothing but
a pack of lies that covered up what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go for it.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are just
another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet. I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to say.
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen. Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another brain
dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible

Prien
Puma
2010-07-22 21:01:02 UTC
Permalink
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I
think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time,
and whenever something to do with the case comes on
TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having
read the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over
it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but wha
t d
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and ha
llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and
how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around
so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone
who told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that
totally, completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed
all the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911
that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his
talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  Fir
st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains
100% if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned
in the two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any
airplane,
were
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never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame
could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down
into their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd
was demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the
bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to
bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely
pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the comm
ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows
who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first
person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this,
up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.
Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with
high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain
that 911 was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt,
facilitated by neo-cons and the Administration, and
covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take
full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do tha
t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted
Baden out context when in "an old thread where Prien
was trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should
have aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up
posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted
Baden out of context to claim Baden said Nicole should
have aspirated blood when
I
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have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is
clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether
she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also
poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical
examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with
Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to
aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated that one would
expect aspiration with her injuries, Baden dodged the
question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming whether
Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions so that
she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said tha
t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so,
which was a bald faced lie because Goldman never
aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the
lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread
an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I
quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his testimony
on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it ea
sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what
they thought
was
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my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings
about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
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in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT
THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE
IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND
SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr.
L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding t
he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE
BR
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OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON
HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK
AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT
THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR
H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKS
HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMO
NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED I
T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF
BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A R
ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE
IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK
IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees
with the coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BL
OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
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evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs
from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB
WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE
WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND
THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough
to aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe --
which Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION
OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST --
ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENS
ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR
PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH
TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH
HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point above and
which is what I said in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he i
s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this
case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's st
ate
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men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs
would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
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were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry
of blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact
entered the air passage or was aspirated into the
lungs. The critical unasked question that is left is
whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the
air passages with the injury Nicole sustained if the
injury had been sustained while she was still alive and
breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily
must have been is in the question Shapiro posed that
Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
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ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION
WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The
directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's
explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the
bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first
made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of
the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into
her lungs.
As
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Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To
note again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to be
if she was alive); and (3) if
she
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was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the
absence of any blood in the lungs that must have been
there had she been alive when throat was cut definitely
answers this questions). Baden's testimony therefore
substantiates the following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut,
blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut in
the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the blood to
be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the other
hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no
blood in it nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the
person could not have
lived
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long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The
person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury
which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period
after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again
the delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it?
Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded ar
e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already
re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom
that I provided about why your simplemninded believes are
all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy
.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which demolishes
your claims you brain dead moroins.  You don't even try
because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts
from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity,
idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you
believe all the liess the government tells you.  Good boy.
 Here is a bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted
ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the
inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell us
greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the
collapse of that building. Only if you know, idiot, but if none
did, what plane speaks for the collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft
frame for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston
actually were found having crashed into the any building.  This
should be a piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had
access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your
point about th
e
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speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck
boxes recovered from the planes match the black boxes that were
installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations
(wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's
"facts." Your statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions
from your defective reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole story
about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say so,
you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.  Okay, provide
the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC
that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the structure
collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I certainly
don't have to provide any evience to prove it when I declare that
to be false.  No interpretation  necessary.  Now, to prove me
wrong, about this,all
you
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need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how the
building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove it.  Alos no
inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an
idiot or a liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that
you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who
can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of
911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that the
airframes that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on 911
were also indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the 911
crash sites. There is a simpe way for you to do this.  Every
aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been installed
in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide authenticated
evidence that proves that any of such srially numbered parts were
found at any of the crash sites that established the frame that
crashed was undeed the identical airframe that took off that mrning
and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened.  It is, of course, impossible
for this to be true unless that commission positively identified
with established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft
frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones
that crashed at the 911 crash sites.  All the necessary documented
evidence should then be in that report.  Unless, of course, the
report is nothing but a pack of lies that covered up what actually
happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go for it.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are
just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet. I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to say.
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen. Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another brain
dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-26 00:07:07 UTC
Permalink
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago (I
think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time,
and whenever something to do with the case comes on
TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having
read the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get over
it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but wha
t d
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and ha
llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth and
how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw around
so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone
who told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that
totally, completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and exposed
all the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about 911
that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of his
talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the melting
point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  Fir
st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel maintains
100% if its strength up to its melting point.
What I instead did say was that the fires that burned
in the two towers, and especially the puny
little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not hit by any
airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame
could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down
into their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond absurd
was demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake the
 bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands of
structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue to
bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely
pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to seek
domination over their people and use it to justify
aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the comm
ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred dictatorial
powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows
who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the first
person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on this,
up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to happen.
Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with
high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain
that 911 was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt,
facilitated by neo-cons and the Administration, and
covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I take
full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do tha
t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I quoted
Baden out context when in "an old thread where Prien
was trying to claim Baden admitted that Nicole should
have aspirated blood."  But then you also gave up
posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted
Baden out of context to claim Baden said Nicole should
have aspirated blood when
I
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have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is
clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of whether
she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described for
when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I also
poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable medical
examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty with
Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed to
aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated that one would
expect aspiration with her injuries, Baden dodged the
question, affirmed that he disagreed with the
conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming whether
Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions so that
she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated
blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said tha
t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so,
which was a bald faced lie because Goldman never
aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the
lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through his
respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that thread
 an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the
medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way I
quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his testimony
on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it ea
sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping all
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at what
they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony that
related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical findings
about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
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in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATION THAT
THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED DECREASE
IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN AND
SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about Dr.
L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT --
  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regarding t
he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NICOLE
 BR
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OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE ON
HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK
AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT
THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR. KELBERG: YOUR
H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. LAKS
HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TESTIMO
NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?
   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTED I
T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING OF
BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my interpretation
of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY A R
ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE
DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSIBLE
 IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK
IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely disagrees
with the coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which is
essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS BL
OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his lungs
from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS ON A STAB
WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE
WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND
THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which it was in
Nicole's case) and whether the person lived long enough
to aspirate the blood that gets into the windpipe --
which Nicole obviously did not.)       INHALATION
OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST --
ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXTENS
ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY, AIR
PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG ENOUGH
TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO DO WITH
HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point above and
which is what I said in my postings to begin with.)
  (Shapiro's immediately following question shows he i
s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about this
case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's st
ate
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men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs
would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the entry
of blood. It is also clear that no blood in fact
entered the air passage or was aspirated into the
lungs. The critical unasked question that is left is
whether blood necessarily would have gotten into the
air passages with the injury Nicole sustained if the
injury had been sustained while she was still alive and
breathing. The hint to what this answer necessarily
must have been is in the question Shapiro posed that
Baden declined to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION
WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL CERTAINTY? The
directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the coroner's
explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer it
directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in the
bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first
made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony of
the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart were
working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated into
her lungs.
As
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Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely on
"WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD." To
note again: whether blood is aspirated into the lungs
depends solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to be
if she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the
absence of any blood in the lungs that must have been
there had she been alive when throat was cut definitely
answers this questions). Baden's testimony therefore
substantiates the following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is cut,
blood will
flow
Post by Incubus
into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut in
the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the blood to
be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the other
hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there is no
blood in it nor was any aspirated into the lungs, the
person could not have
lived
Post by Incubus
long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The
person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to have
inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the injury
which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short) period
after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again
the delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get it?
Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded ar
e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public already
 re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting even
simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn therefrom
that I provided about why your simplemninded believes are
all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kennedy
.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which demolishes
your claims you brain dead moroins.  You don't even try
because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts
from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity,
idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But you
believe all the liess the government tells you.  Good boy.
 Here is a bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been refuted
ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe the
unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the
inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell us
greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the
collapse of that building. Only if you know, idiot, but if none
did, what plane speaks for the collpase of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft
frame for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston
actually were found having crashed into the any building.  This
should be a piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had
access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your
point about th
e
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speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck
boxes recovered from the planes match the black boxes that were
installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own interpretations
(wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts" cause YOU say it's
"facts." Your statements are irrational, irrelevant, delusions
from your defective reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole story
about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say so,
you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.  Okay, provide
the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC
that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the structure
collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I certainly
don't have to provide any evience to prove it when I declare that
to be false.  No interpretation  necessary.  Now, to prove me
wrong, about this,all
you
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need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how the
building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove it.  Alos no
inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an
idiot or a liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that
you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those who
can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of
911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that the
airframes that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on 911
were also indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the 911
crash sites. There is a simpe way for you to do this.  Every
aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been installed
in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide authenticated
evidence that proves that any of such srially numbered parts were
found at any of the crash sites that established the frame that
crashed was undeed the identical airframe that took off that mrning
and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened.  It is, of course, impossible
for this to be true unless that commission positively identified
with established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft
frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones
that crashed at the 911 crash sites.  All the necessary documented
evidence should then be in that report.  Unless, of course, the
report is nothing but a pack of lies that covered up what actually
happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go for it.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are
just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet.  I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to say.
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen.  Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another brain
dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
Calls me a lunaetic, but can't meet the simple challenge I posed that
he provide evidence that positively identifies the aircraft frames
that crashed as the frames that took of as the hijacked flights.

Cheick, chick cheikeeeeeen; chick, chick chikeeen

And the brain dead moron NOj retard imebecilic cretin yet again ripped
to shreds by the invicible

Prien
Puma
2010-07-26 14:16:32 UTC
Permalink
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago
(I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time,
and whenever something to do with the case comes on
TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
Post by Incubus
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having
read the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get
over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but
wha
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t d
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and
ha
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llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth
and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw
around so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone
who told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that
totally, completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and
exposed all the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about
911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of
his talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the
melting point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  
Fir
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st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel
maintains 100% if its strength up to its melting
point. What I instead did say was that the fires
that burned in the two towers, and especially the
puny little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not
hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame
could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down
into their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond
absurd was demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
Post by Incubus
the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake
the
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 bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands
of structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue
to
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bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely
pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to
seek domination over their people and use it to
justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the c
omm
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ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred
dictatorial powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who
knows who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the
first person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on thi
s,
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up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to
happen. Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with
high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain
that 911 was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt,
facilitated by neo-cons and the Administration, and
covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I
take full credit
for
Post by Incubus
seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do
tha
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t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I
quoted Baden out context when in "an old thread
where Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted that
Nicole should have aspirated blood."  But then you
also gave up posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted
Baden out of context to claim Baden said Nicole
should have aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is
clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of
whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described
for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I al
so
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poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable
medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty
with Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed
to aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated that one
would expect aspiration with her injuries, Baden
dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with
the conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions
so that she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated
blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said
tha
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t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so,
which was a bald faced lie because Goldman never
aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the
lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through
his respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that
thr
ead
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 an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the
medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way
I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his
testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it
ea
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sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping
all the follow up comments that go beyond this
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at
what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony
that related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical
findings about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
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in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATI
ON THAT
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THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED
DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN
AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about
Dr. L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT
--
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  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regardin
g t
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he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NIC
OLE
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 BR
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OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE
ON HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER
NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS
WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR.
KELBER
G: YOUR
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H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. L
AKS
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HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TEST
IMO
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NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR TH
AT?
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   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTE
D I
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T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING
OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my
interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY
A R
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ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE
DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSI
BLE
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 IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK
IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely
disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
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and fails to respond to the question directly, which
is essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS
BL
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OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his
lungs from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS
ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE --
OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT
BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG
ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which
it was in Nicole's case) and whether the person
lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did
not.)       IN
HALATION
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OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST
-- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXT
ENS
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ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY,
AIR PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG
ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO
DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point
above and which is what I said in my postings to
begin with.)   (Shapiro's immediately following
question shows h
e i
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s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about
this case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES
OF
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QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's
st
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ate
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men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs
would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the
entry of blood. It is also clear that no blood in
fact entered the air passage or was aspirated into
the lungs. The critical unasked question that is
left is whether blood necessarily would have gotten
into the air passages with the injury Nicole
sustained if the injury had been sustained while she
was still alive and breathing. The hint to what this
answer necessarily must have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer
directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT
OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the
coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer
it directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in
the bargain. So he sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first
made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony
of the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart
were working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated
into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely
on "WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD."
To note again: whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to
be if she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the
absence of any blood in the lungs that must have
been there had she been alive when throat was cut
definitely answers this questions). Baden's
testimony therefore substantiates the following set
of
causal
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statements: If the windpipe of a living person is
cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut in
the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the blood
to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there
is no blood in it nor was any aspirated into the
lungs, the person could not have
lived
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long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The
person with a
cut
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throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to
have inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the
injury which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short)
period after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again
the delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get
it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded
ar
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e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public alre
ady
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 re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting
even simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn
therefrom that I provided about why your simplemninded
believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kenn
edy
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.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which
demolishes your claims you brain dead moroins.  You don't
even try because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts
from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity,
idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But
you believe all the liess the government tells you.  Good
boy.  Here is a bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been
refuted ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during
the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe
the unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't
be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the
inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell
us greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the
collapse of that building. Only if you know, idiot, but if
none did, what plane speaks for the collpase of that
building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft
frame for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston
actually were found having crashed into the any building.
 This should be a piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had
access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your
point about th
e
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speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck
boxes recovered from the planes match the black boxes that
were installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own
interpretations (wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts"
cause YOU say it's "facts." Your statements are irrational,
irrelevant, delusions from your defective reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole st
ory
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about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say
so, you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.  Okay,
provid
e
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the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC
that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the
structure collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I
certainly don't have to provide any evience to prove it when I
declare that to be false.  No interpretation  necessary.  Now,
to prove me wrong, about this,all
you
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need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how
the building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove it.
 Alos
no
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inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an
idiot or a liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that
you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those
who can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of
911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that
the airframes that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on
911 were also indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the
911 crash sites. There is a simpe way for you to do this.  Every
aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been
installed in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide
authenticated evidence that proves that any of such srially
numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical
airframe that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened.  It is, of course,
impossibl
e
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for this to be true unless that commission positively identified
with established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft
frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones
that crashed at the 911 crash sites.  All the necessary
documented evidence should then be in that report.  Unless, of
course, the report is nothing but a pack of lies that covered up
what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go for
it
.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are
just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet.  I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to say.
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen.  Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another
brai
n
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dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
Calls me a lunaetic, but can't meet the simple challenge I posed that
he provide evidence that positively identifies the aircraft frames
that crashed as the frames that took of as the hijacked flights.
Cheick, chick cheikeeeeeen; chick, chick chikeeen
And the brain dead moron NOj retard imebecilic cretin yet again ripped
to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Invincible? Ha! More like "impenetrable"! The planes took down the
buildings. There is video of it happening.

Plane hit the Pentagon. Video.

Simpson as much as admitted he killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
Evidence proved it. Money and fame paid off witnesses to say otherwise.

Muslims in planes. Simpson with a knife. Cases closed.

Prien -- needs psychological evaluation and professional help. Fool.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-26 22:24:31 UTC
Permalink
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news:06c4b71a-d7c5-4e52-a355-
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years ago
(I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to time,
and whenever something to do with the case comes on
TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from having
read the transcripts), I get pissed off, but get
over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, but
wha
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t d
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group and
 ha
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llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the truth
and how you
NoJ's
Post by Incubus
had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case you
fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw
around so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter anyone
who told the truth until he was struck by the
thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you that
totally, completely and fully annihilated the
credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and
exposed all the frauds deceptions, misrepresentation
and lies that made up the prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions about
911 that I
voiced
Post by Incubus
by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of
his talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the
melting point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.  
Fir
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st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel
maintains 100% if its strength up to its melting
point. What I instead did say was that the fires
that burned in the two towers, and especially the
puny little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not
hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the frame
could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight down
into their footprints.  That this scenario for
explaining the fall of the buildings was beyond
absurd was demonstrated a few years ago when a
steel frame building in Madrid turned into a flame
belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building remained
standing even though portions of some floors
collapsed.  These collapsed floors did not pancake
the
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 bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now thousands
of structural engineers and architects and
other professionals on 911 Truth sites who utterly
denounce the Bush administration's version of
those events.  Naturally enough, you NoJs continue
to
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bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire merely
pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to
seek domination over their people and use it to
justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed the c
omm
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ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred
dictatorial powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly what
happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who
knows who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the
first person to identify the truth of what was going
down.   But had you been following the polls on thi
s,
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up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside job -
meaning it was either directly perpetrated by
the Bush administration or permitted by them to
happen. Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it.
And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the former
Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion with
high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100% certain
that 911 was a Mossad operation, that was, no doubt,
facilitated by neo-cons and the Administration, and
covered up by them by suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I
take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I do
tha
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t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I
quoted Baden out context when in "an old thread
where Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted that
Nicole should have aspirated blood."  But then you
also gave up posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have quoted
Baden out of context to claim Baden said Nicole
should have aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it is
clear I said
that
Post by Incubus
he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of
whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described
for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I al
so
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poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable
medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty
with Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had failed
to aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated that one
would expect aspiration with her injuries, Baden
dodged the question, affirmed that he disagreed with
the conclusion and stated the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these conditions
so that she should have aspirated blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have aspirated
blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also said
tha
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t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done so,
which was a bald faced lie because Goldman never
aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into the
lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or through
his respiratory tract.  Finally, what I did in that
thr
ead
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 an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about the
medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what way
I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his
testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make it
 ea
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sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments bearing
directly on that testimony (meaning I am snipping
all the follow up comments that go beyond this
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at
what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of buffoons.
Then I ran across the portion of Baden's testimony
that related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of the
significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a two-fold
significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical
findings about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's direct
examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRETATI
ON THAT
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THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED
DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF OXYGEN
AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about
Dr. L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE THAT
--
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  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regardin
g t
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he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT NIC
OLE
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 BR
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OWN
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A SHOE
ON HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP, HYPEREXTENDED HER
NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THIS
WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD IN HER LUNGS.    MR.
KELBER
G: YOUR
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H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR. L
AKS
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HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE GROUND
UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND HER
THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT TEST
IMO
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NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR TH
AT?
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   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPORTE
D I
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T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO SUCKING
OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note that
the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my
interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY WAY
A R
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ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A REASONABLE
DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPONSI
BLE
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 IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I THINK
IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden merely
disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly, which
is essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT?
   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SUCKS
 BL
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OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
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evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his
lungs from the lung injuries themselves) -- DEPENDS
ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE WINDPIPE --
OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH AREA SO THAT
BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON LIVING LONG
ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends on whether the windpipe is cut (which
it was in Nicole's case) and whether the person
lived long enough to aspirate the blood that gets
into the windpipe -- which Nicole obviously did
not.)       IN
HALATION
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OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN AGAINST
-- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPEREXT
ENS
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ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY,
AIR PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES LONG
ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND NOTHING TO
DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made the same point
above and which is what I said in my postings to
begin with.)   (Shapiro's immediately following
question shows h
e i
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s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth about
this case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH A SERIES
OF
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QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN YOUR
OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH THE
PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Baden's
 st
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ate
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men
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t o
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the lungs
would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with the
injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of course, a
certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the
entry of blood. It is also clear that no blood in
fact entered the air passage or was aspirated into
the lungs. The critical unasked question that is
left is whether blood necessarily would have gotten
into the air passages with the injury Nicole
sustained if the injury had been sustained while she
was still alive and breathing. The hint to what this
answer necessarily must have been is in the question
Shapiro posed that Baden declined to answer
directly, namely: IS
THERE
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ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT
OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the
coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to answer
it directly and denounce the coroner's integrity in
the bargain. So he sidestepped
the
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issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I first
made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical testimony
of the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and heart
were working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been aspirated
into her lungs.
As
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Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends entirely
on "WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD."
To note again: whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends solely on whether (1) the windpipe
was cut (which it unquestionably was); (2) there is
bleeding into it (not directly answered but had to
be if she was alive); and (3) if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it (the
absence of any blood in the lungs that must have
been there had she been alive when throat was cut
definitely answers this questions). Baden's
testimony therefore substantiates the following set
of
causal
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statements: If the windpipe of a living person is
cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut in
the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the blood
to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs. If, on the
other hand, a person's windpipe were cut and there
is no blood in it nor was any aspirated into the
lungs, the person could not have
lived
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long enough thereafter to have inhaled it. Ergo: The
person with a
cut
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throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs could
neither have lived long enough after the injury to
have inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the
injury which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short)
period after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving again
the delusional folly of your claiming otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get
it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem minded
 ar
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e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public alre
ady
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 re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands of
architect, engineers, pilots, military officers and the
intelligence agencies of every major country about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of rebutting
even simplest facts and necessary conclusions drawn
therefrom that I provided about why your simplemninded
believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed Kenn
edy
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.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which
demolishes your claims you brain dead moroins.  You don't
even try because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and facts
from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance, stupidity,
idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know noithings.  But
you believe all the liess the government tells you.  Good
boy.  Here is a bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been
refuted ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike during
the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves believe
the unbelievable. If you say it enough times it STILL won't
be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth the
inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you tell
us greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to produce the
collapse of that building. Only if you know, idiot, but if
none did, what plane speaks for the collpase of that
building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the aircraft
frame for the planes that took off as the flights from Boston
actually were found having crashed into the any building.
 This should be a piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they had
access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To prove your
point about th
e
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speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the balck
boxes recovered from the planes match the black boxes that
were installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own
interpretations (wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not "facts"
cause YOU say it's "facts." Your statements are irrational,
irrelevant, delusions from your defective reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole st
ory
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about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say
so, you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.  Okay,
provid
e
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the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into WTC
that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the
structure collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact, I
certainly don't have to provide any evience to prove it when I
declare that to be false.  No interpretation  necessary.  Now,
to prove me wrong, about this,all
you
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need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains how
the building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove it.
 Alos
 no
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inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are an
idiot or a liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is that
you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as those
who can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story of
911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves that
the airframes that took off as the flights allegedly hijacked on
911 were also indeed the frames that crashed at all four of the
911 crash sites. There is a simpe way for you to do this.  Every
aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been
installed in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide
authenticated evidence that proves that any of such srially
numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical
airframe that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission that
investigated the event and issued the government's version that
supposedly established what happened.  It is, of course,
impossibl
e
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for this to be true unless that commission positively identified
with established with incontrovertible evidence that the aicraft
frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were exactly the same ones
that crashed at the 911 crash sites.  All the necessary
documented evidence should then be in that report.  Unless, of
course, the report is nothing but a pack of lies that covered up
what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go for
it
.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you are
just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet.  I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to say.
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen.  Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another
brai
n
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dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
Calls me a lunaetic, but can't meet the simple challenge I posed that
he provide evidence that positively identifies the aircraft frames
that crashed as the frames that took of as the hijacked flights.
Cheick, chick cheikeeeeeen; chick, chick chikeeen
And the brain dead moron NOj retard imebecilic cretin yet again ripped
to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Invincible? Ha! More like "impenetrable"! The planes took down the
buildings. There is video of it happening.
Plane hit the Pentagon. Video.
Simpson as much as admitted he killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
Evidence proved it. Money and fame paid off witnesses to say otherwise.
Muslims in planes. Simpson with a knife. Cases closed.
Prien -- needs psychological evaluation and professional help. Fool.
Great. The planes hit the building. BUt are the air frames that
crashed idential to the air frames thattook off and were allegedly
hijacked. Now, to prove me wrong, instead more hot air babble that
simpy repeats your claims, all you need to is to post the
authenticated evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the air frames
that crashed are identical to the ones that took off. You're so sure
of yourself, this should be a piece of cake. And you claim it was all
done by these Muslims. It should then be even easier to post the
pssanger lists the airlines published the next day that ideifies the
names of each hijacker. See how easy I make it for you to prove the
case is really close with actual and documented evidence instrad from
the gas you're blowing from your ass.

So post it. I will be waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiting. BUt not holding
my breath.

And unless you post it, you are still the brain dead moron NOj retard
imebecilic cretin ripped
to shreds by the invicible

Prien
Puma
2010-07-27 20:23:40 UTC
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rot
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years
ago (I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to
time, and whenever something to do with the case
comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from
having read the transcripts), I get pissed off,
but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, b
ut
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wha
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group
and
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 ha
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llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the
truth and how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case
you fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw
around so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter
anyone who told the truth until he was struck by
the thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you
that totally, completely and fully annihilated
the credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and
exposed all the frauds deceptions,
misrepresentation and lies that made up the
prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions
about 911 that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of
his talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the
melting point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.
Â
 
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Fir
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st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel
maintains 100% if its strength up to its melting
point. What I instead did say was that the fires
that burned in the two towers, and especially the
puny little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not
hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the
frame could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight
down into their footprints.  That this scenario
for explaining the fall of the buildings was
beyond absurd was demonstrated a few years ago
when a steel frame building in Madrid turned into
a flame belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building
remained standing even though portions of some
floors collapsed.  These collapsed floors did
not panca
ke
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the
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 bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now
thousands of structural engineers and architects
and other professionals on 911 Truth sites who
utterly denounce the Bush administration's
version of those events.  Naturally enough, you
NoJs contin
ue
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to
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bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire
merely pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to
seek domination over their people and use it to
justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed th
e c
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omm
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ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred
dictatorial powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly wh
at
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happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who
knows who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the
first person to identify the truth of what was
going down.   But had you been following the
polls on
thi
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s,
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up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside
job - meaning it was either directly perpetrated
by the Bush administration or permitted by them
to happen. Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it
.
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And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the
former Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion
with high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100%
certain that 911 was a Mossad operation, that
was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by
suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I
take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I
do
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tha
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t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I
quoted Baden out context when in "an old thread
where Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted
that Nicole should have aspirated blood."  But
then y
ou
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also gave up posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have
quoted Baden out of context to claim Baden said
Nicole should have aspirated blood when
I
Post by Incubus
have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it
is clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of
whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described
for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I
al
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so
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poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable
medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty
with Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated
that one would expect aspiration with her
injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed
that he disagreed with the conclusion and stated
the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these
conditions so that she should have aspirated
blood if they
had.
Post by Incubus
Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have
aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also sa
id
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tha
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t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done
so, which was a bald faced lie because Goldman
never aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into
the lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or
through his respiratory tract.  Finally, what I
did in t
hat
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thr
ead
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 an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about
the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what
way I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his
testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make
it
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 ea
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sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments
bearing directly on that testimony (meaning I am
snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at
what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of
buffoons. Then I ran across the portion of
Baden's testimony that related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of
the significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a
two-fold significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical
findings about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's
direct examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRET
ATI
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ON THAT
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THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED
DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF
OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
Post by Incubus
LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about
Dr. L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE TH
AT
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--
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  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regar
din
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g t
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he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT
NIC
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OLE
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OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A
SHOE ON HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP,
HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD
IN HER LUNGS.   Â
 MR.
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KELBER
G: YOUR
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H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR
. L
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AKS
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HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE
GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND
HER THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT T
EST
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IMO
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NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR
TH
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AT?
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   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPO
RTE
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D I
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T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO
SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note
that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my
interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY W
AY
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A R
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ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPO
NSI
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BLE
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 IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I
THINK IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden
merely disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly,
which is essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH TH
AT?
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   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SU
CKS
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 BL
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OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his
lungs from the lung injuries themselves) --
DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH
AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON
LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
Post by Incubus
you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends on whether the windpipe is cut
(which it was in Nicole's case) and whether the
person lived long enough to aspirate the blood
that gets into the windpipe -- which Nicole
obviously did not.)       IN
HALATION
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OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN
AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPER
EXT
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ENS
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ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY,
AIR PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES
LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND
NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made
the same point above and which is what I said in
my postings to begin with.)   (Shapiro's
immediately following question shows h
e i
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s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth
about this case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH
A
SERIES
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OF
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QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN
YOUR OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH
THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Bade
n's
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 st
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ate
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men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the
lungs would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with
the injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of
course, a certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the
entry of blood. It is also clear that no blood in
fact entered the air passage or was aspirated
into the lungs. The critical unasked question
that is left is whether blood necessarily would
have gotten into the air passages with the injury
Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing. The hint
to what this answer necessarily must have been is
in the question Shapiro posed that Baden declined
to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT
OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
Post by Incubus
would have been, no there is not, because the
coroner's explanation
is
Post by Incubus
pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to
answer it directly and denounce the coroner's
integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I
first made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical
testimony of the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and
heart were working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been
aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends
entirely on "WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD." To note again: whether blood is aspirated
into the lungs depends solely on whether (1) the
windpipe was cut (which it unquestionably was);
(2) there is bleeding into it (not directly
answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3)
if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it
(the absence of any blood in the lungs that must
have been there had she been alive when throat
was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the
following set of
causal
Post by Incubus
statements: If the windpipe of a living person is
cut, blood will
flow
Post by Incubus
into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut
in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the
blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs.
If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe were
cut and there is no blood in it nor was any
aspirated into the lungs, the person could not
have
lived
Post by Incubus
The person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs
could neither have lived long enough after the
injury to have inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the
injury which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short)
period after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving
again the delusional folly of your claiming
otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get
it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem min
ded
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 ar
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e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public a
lre
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ady
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 re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands
of architect, engineers, pilots, military officers
and the intelligence agencies of every major country
about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of
rebutting even simplest facts and necessary
conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided about
why your simplemninded believes are all based on lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed K
enn
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edy
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.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which
demolishes your claims you brain dead moroins.  You
don't even try because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and
facts from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance,
stupidity, idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know
noithings.  But you believe all the liess the
government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a bone for y
ou.
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Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been
refuted ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike
during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves
believe the unbelievable. If you say it enough times it
STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth
the inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you
tell us greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to
produce the collapse of that building. Only if you know,
idiot, but if none did, what plane speaks for the collpase
of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the
aircraft frame for the planes that took off as the flights
from Boston actually were found having crashed into the
any building.  This should be a piece o
f
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cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they
had access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To
prove yo
ur
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point about th
e
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speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the
balck boxes recovered from the planes match the black
boxes that were installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own
interpretations (wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not
"facts" cause YOU say it's "facts." Your statements are
irrational, irrelevant, delusions from your defective
reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole
st
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ory
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about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say
so, you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.
 Okay, provid
e
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the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into
WTC that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the
structure collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact,
I certainly don't have to provide any evience to prove it
when I declare that to be false.  No interpretation
 necessary.  N
ow,
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to prove me wrong, about this,all
you
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need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains
how the building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove
it.  Alos
 no
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inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are
an idiot or a liar.
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Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is
that you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as
those who can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story
of 911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves
that the airframes that took off as the flights allegedly
hijacked on 911 were also indeed the frames that crashed at
all four of the 911 crash sites. There is a simpe way for you
to do this.  Ever
y
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aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been
installed in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide
authenticated evidence that proves that any of such srially
numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical
airframe that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission
that investigated the event and issued the government's
version that supposedly established what happened.  It is, of
course, impossibl
e
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for this to be true unless that commission positively
identified with established with incontrovertible evidence
that the aicraft frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were
exactly the same ones that crashed at the 911 crash sites.
 All the necessary documented evidence should then be in that
report.  Unless, of course, the report is nothing but a pack
of lies that covered up what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go
for it
.
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Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you
are just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet.  I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to
say
.
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Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen.  Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another
brai
n
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dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
Calls me a lunaetic, but can't meet the simple challenge I posed
that he provide evidence that positively identifies the aircraft
frames that crashed as the frames that took of as the hijacked
flights.
Cheick, chick cheikeeeeeen; chick, chick chikeeen
And the brain dead moron NOj retard imebecilic cretin yet again
ripped to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Invincible? Ha! More like "impenetrable"! The planes took down the
buildings. There is video of it happening.
Plane hit the Pentagon. Video.
Simpson as much as admitted he killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
Evidence proved it. Money and fame paid off witnesses to say
otherwise.
Muslims in planes. Simpson with a knife. Cases closed.
Prien -- needs psychological evaluation and professional help. Fool.
Great. The planes hit the building. BUt are the air frames that
crashed idential to the air frames thattook off and were allegedly
hijacked. Now, to prove me wrong, instead more hot air babble that
simpy repeats your claims, all you need to is to post the
authenticated evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the air frames
that crashed are identical to the ones that took off. You're so sure
of yourself, this should be a piece of cake. And you claim it was all
done by these Muslims. It should then be even easier to post the
pssanger lists the airlines published the next day that ideifies the
names of each hijacker. See how easy I make it for you to prove the
case is really close with actual and documented evidence instrad from
the gas you're blowing from your ass.
So post it. I will be waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiting. BUt not holding
my breath.
And unless you post it, you are still the brain dead moron NOj retard
imebecilic cretin ripped
to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Finishes same as started. Yes. Freak.
p***@aol.com
2010-07-31 01:08:59 UTC
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rot
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I used to post here maybe about 10 or 11 years
ago (I think) when I
had
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the time.
I still think about the evidence from time to
time, and whenever something to do with the case
comes on TV, I'll watch it. If they
say
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something that I know to be incorrect (from
having read the transcripts), I get pissed off,
but get over it eventually.
It's been years since I visited this site, b
ut
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wha
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t d
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o I
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 fi
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nd
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when I
happened to drop in a few days
ago?  Ragnar lamenting the passing of the group
and
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llu
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cin
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ati
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ng
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with
delusional fantasies that
Prien and Miller were unable to recognize the
truth and how you
NoJ's
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had whacked us over the
head with it countless times.
Well, whatever "truths" about the Simpson case
you fantasized having whacked us with added up
to nothing more than empty air balls you threw
around so freely that would have driven Diogenes
to despair about ever being able to encounter
anyone who told the truth until he was struck by
the thunderbolt of truths that we hurled at you
that totally, completely and fully annihilated
the credibility, accuracy and truthfulness of and
exposed all the frauds deceptions,
misrepresentation and lies that made up the
prosecution and plaintiff
cases against Simpson.
Let us not, however, dwell in generalities and go
instead to the facts.
First Ragnar dares to belittle my conclusions
about 911 that I
voiced
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by declaring that she would
not like "to think the world is being deprived of
his talk about Reichstag fires and how steel
maintains 100% of its strength right up to the
melting point."
Â
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 On
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ly a
NoJ could pack as many
falsehoods as she has into such a short sentence.
Â
 
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Fir
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st,
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 I
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nev
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er
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claimed, maintained or alleged,
and I dare you to prove otherwise, that steel
maintains 100% if its strength up to its melting
point. What I instead did say was that the fires
that burned in the two towers, and especially the
puny little flames observed in WTC 7 that was not
hit by any airplane,
were
Post by Incubus
never hot enough to have
heated the steel frame to the point that the
frame could have been weakened sufficiently to
produce the collapse of the buildings straight
down into their footprints.  That this scenario
for explaining the fall of the buildings was
beyond absurd was demonstrated a few years ago
when a steel frame building in Madrid turned into
a flame belching torch
with
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the fires raging out of
control for over 24 hours, but the building
remained standing even though portions of some
floors collapsed.  These collapsed floors did
not panca
ke
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the
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 bu
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ild
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ing
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 to
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 the
ground.  Not only that, if
you care to check this out, there are now
thousands of structural engineers and architects
and other professionals on 911 Truth sites who
utterly denounce the Bush administration's
version of those events.  Naturally enough, you
NoJs contin
ue
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to
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bel
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iev
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e i
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n t
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he
government lies, just like
those of the Simpson case.
Next, my comparing 911 to the Reichstag fire
merely pointed to how
the
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two events were
identical false flag operations implemented by
authorities who used the terror they inspired to
seek domination over their people and use it to
justify aggression
against
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any who they identified as
their enemies.  In Hitler's case, they blamed th
e c
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omm
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ies
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, t
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hre
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w t
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heir
opposition in the Reichstag
into concentration camps and then conferred
dictatorial powers on Hitler.  Almost exactly wh
at
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happened in the US - with the Patriot Act, the
concentration camp in Cuba, and wars of
aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq and who
knows who else is to come.  I am, therefore
proud to be one of the first if not actually the
first person to identify the truth of what was
going down.   But had you been following the
polls on
thi
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s,
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up
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to
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40%
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 of
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 the
American people now
subscribe to the notion that 911 was an inside
job - meaning it was either directly perpetrated
by the Bush administration or permitted by them
to happen. Â
 
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In
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oth
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er
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words, it was the Reichstag
fire.  There are now even buttons proclaiming it
.
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And no less a person than Alan Sobrosky, the
former Director of Studies of the US Army War
College, declares that based on his discussion
with high ranking Pentagon officials, it is 100%
certain that 911 was a Mossad operation, that
was, no doubt, facilitated by neo-cons and the
Administration, and covered up by them by
suppressing any meaningful
investigation of what happened.
So damn, Prien was right again, as ALWAYS, and I
take full credit
for
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seeing this long before anyone else did.  But I
do
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tha
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t a
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ll
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the
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 ti
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me.
You NOJs just keep on believing the lies.
Finally, you allege that you established that I
quoted Baden out context when in "an old thread
where Prien was trying to claim Baden admitted
that Nicole should have aspirated blood."  But
then y
ou
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also gave up posting a
nyt
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hin
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g t
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o s
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how
it since it was so long ago.
It's not, however, too long ago for me to set the
record straight
and
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expose your lies again.
First, it's rather impossible for me to have
quoted Baden out of context to claim Baden said
Nicole should have aspirated blood when
I
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have, indeed, reviewed the relevant thread and it
is clear I said
that
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he instead cleverly dodged around the issue of
whether she should
have
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aspirated blood while the conditions he described
for when
aspiration
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would occur fitted Nicole's injuries.  Second, I
 al
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so
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poi
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nte
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d o
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ut
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that
after he was asked about whether any reputable
medical examiner
would
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agree to a reasonable degree of medical certainty
with Dr. L's conclusion about why Nicole had
failed to aspirate blood when Dr. L had indicated
that one would expect aspiration with her
injuries, Baden dodged the question, affirmed
that he disagreed with the conclusion and stated
the conditions under which
aspiration would occur, without ever affirming
whether Nicole's injuries fulfilled these
conditions so that she should have aspirated
blood if they
had.
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Ity is because he dodged around this issue , as I
explained it, that
I
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never said Baden claimed she should have
aspirated blood, and
pointed
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to the opposite.  Third, he in fact then also sa
id
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tha
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t N
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ico
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le
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had
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failed to aspirate blood while Goldman had done
so, which was a bald faced lie because Goldman
never aspirated any blood.  T
he
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blood
 in
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 his
lungs came directly from the knife injuries into
the lungs rather
than
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blood that blood entering from his mouth or
through his respiratory tract.  Finally, what I
did in t
hat
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thr
ead
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 an
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d
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after was to poi
nt
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to
how Baden was deceiving with half truths about
the medical
conditions
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and the aspiration issue.
So now I also dare you to prove exactly in what
way I quoted Baden
out
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of context with respect to any portion of his
testimony on this
issue
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and my assessment of his claims.  I'll even make
 it
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 ea
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sy
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for
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 yo
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u a
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nd
post the testimony I cited and my comments
bearing directly on that testimony (meaning I am
snipping all the follow up comments that go
Baden on aspirating blood into lungs
A final postscript to clear up matters about the
significance of the absence of
blood in the trachea and lungs of Nicole Brown.
All the yahoo's attempted to have a good time at
what they thought
was
Post by Incubus
my
expense by denouncing my qualifications and
interpretations. At the head of
the class was Bozo Regan and his claque of
buffoons. Then I ran across the portion of
Baden's testimony that related directly to the
medical points at issue and my interpretation of
the significance of the
absence of blood in the lungs. There is a
two-fold significance to his
testimony. First, it makes absolutely clear and
unquestionable the significance of the medical
findings about the incised throat wound. Second,
it illustrates the massive deceptions that were
practiced by all
sides
Post by Incubus
in this
case.
The testimony in question is during Baden's
direct examination on August 10,
1995.
First, when asked about the throat injury, Baden
agrees:     WITH DR. LAKSHMANAN'S INTERPRET
ATI
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ON THAT
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THA
T M
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OST
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 LI
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KEL
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Y WAS THE
FINAL
INJURY SHE RECEIVED AND SHE WOULD HAVE LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN SECONDS OF
SUFFERING THAT CUT WOUND BECAUSE OF THE MARKED
DECREASE IN BLOOD
FLOW
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TO THE
BRAIN. THE BRAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPRIVED OF
OXYGEN AND SHE WOULD
HAVE
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LOST
CONSCIOUSNESS.
But when a few questions later, he is asked about
Dr. L. interpretation of how
her throat was cut, the following exchanges and
testimony ensues
(all
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emphasis
  Q   YOU HEARD DR. LAKSHMANAN SPECULATE TH
AT
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--
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  (Objections by Kelberg and court rulings regar
din
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g t
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he
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use
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 of
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 th
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e
word
"speculate" have been cut.)
  Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT ONE WAY THAT
NIC
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OLE
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 BR
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OWN
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 SI
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MPS
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ON COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED WAS THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD A
SHOE ON HER BACK, PULLED HER HAIR UP,
HYPEREXTENDED HER NECK AND SLIT HER THROAT, AND
THE EVIDENCE OF THIS WAS THAT THERE WAS NO BLOOD
IN HER LUNGS.   Â
 MR.
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KELBER
G: YOUR
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H
ONOR, I
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OBJECT.
THAT
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MISSTATES DR. L
AKS
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HMANAN'S
TESTIMONY. I ASK TO BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR.
   THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
   Q   BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU HEAR DR
. L
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AKS
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HMA
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NAN
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'S
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TES
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TIMONY
REGARDING NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEING ON THE
GROUND UNCONSCIOUS,
HAVING
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HER HAIR PULLED BACK, HER NECK HYPEREXTENDED AND
HER THROAT SLIT?       DID YOU HEAR THAT T
EST
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IMO
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NY?
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   A   YES.
   Q   DID HE OFFER AN EXPLANATION FOR
 TH
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AT?
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   A   WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AND SUPPO
RTE
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D I
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T (
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tha
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t h
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er
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neck was
hyperextended) BY THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO
SUCKING OF BLOOD INTO
THE
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LUNGS, ASPIRATING BLOOD (emphasis added - note
that the
prosecution's
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testimony therefore totally confirms my
interpretation of the
autopsy
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description of the
condition of those organs).
   Q   IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ANY W
AY
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A R
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ESP
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ONS
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IBL
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E M
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EDICAL
EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT OPINION WITH A
REASONABLE DEGREE OF
MEDICAL
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CERTAINTY?
   A   I THINK DR. LAKSHMANAN IS RESPO
NSI
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BLE
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 IN
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 GE
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NER
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AL
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TERMS, BUT I
THINK THAT -- I DISAGREE WITH THAT OPINION. I
THINK IT'S A WRONG OPINION (note that Baden
merely disagrees with the coroner's
nonsense
Post by Incubus
and fails to respond to the question directly,
which is essentially whether that opinion has any
credible medical foundation.)
   Q   AND WHY DO YOU DISAGREE WITH TH
AT?
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   A   UMM, WHETHER OR NOT A VICTIM SU
CKS
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 BL
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OOD
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 IN
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TO
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HIS
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 OR HER LUNGS
-- IN THIS INSTANCE, MISS SIMPSON DIDN'T AND MR.
GOLDMAN DID (note-
no
Post by Incubus
evidence for this, Goldman only had blood in his
lungs from the lung injuries themselves) --
DEPENDS ON A STAB WOUND GOING THROUGH THE
WINDPIPE -- OPENING UP THE WINDPIPE OR THE MOUTH
AREA SO THAT BLOOD CAN GET IN AND THEN THE PERSON
LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO INHALE IT.
(There
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you have it - whether blood is aspirated into the
lungs depends on whether the windpipe is cut
(which it was in Nicole's case) and whether the
person lived long enough to aspirate the blood
that gets into the windpipe -- which Nicole
obviously did not.)       IN
HALATION
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OF
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BLOOD INTO
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THE LUNGS IS ASPIRA
TIO
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N.
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AND THAT COULD
HAPPEN WITH THE NECK FLEXED OR WITH THE CHIN
AGAINST -- ALMOST
AGAINST
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THE CHEST.
      HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HYPER
EXT
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ENS
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ION
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 OF
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 TH
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E N
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ECK. IT HAS TO
DO WITH WHETHER THERE'S BLEEDING INTO THE AIRWAY,
AIR PASSAGE AREA, AND WHETHER THE PERSON LIVES
LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE BLOOD AND
NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPEREXTENSION. (I just made
the same point above and which is what I said in
my postings to begin with.)   (Shapiro's
immediately following question shows h
e i
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s e
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ith
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er
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stu
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pid
or
deliberately refusing to establish the truth
about this case.   Q   WE HAVE NOW GONE THROUGH
A
 SERIES
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OF
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QUESTIONS
 ON
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 A
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GEN
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ERAL
CATEGORY OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IN
YOUR OPINION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON STRUGGLED WITH
THE PERPETRATOR OR PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME.
    The critical follow up question to Bade
n's
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 st
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ate
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men
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t o
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f t
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he
conditions under
which blood would have been aspirated into the
lungs would obviously have been
whether those conditions had been satisfied with
the injuries that Nicole sustained. It is, of
course, a certainty that the air
passages
Post by Incubus
were cut that would have opened the airway to the
entry of blood. It is also clear that no blood in
fact entered the air passage or was aspirated
into the lungs. The critical unasked question
that is left is whether blood necessarily would
have gotten into the air passages with the injury
Nicole sustained if the injury had been sustained
while she was still alive and breathing. The hint
to what this answer necessarily must have been is
in the question Shapiro posed that Baden declined
to answer directly, namely: IS
THERE
Post by Incubus
ANY WAY
A RESPONSIBLE MEDICAL EXAMINER COULD OFFER THAT
OPINION WITH A REASONABLE DEGREE OF MEDICAL
CERTAINTY? The directly responsive
answer
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would have been, no there is not, because the
coroner's explanation
is
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pure nonsense, which is why Baden declined to
answer it directly and denounce the coroner's
integrity in the bargain. So he sidestepped
the
Post by Incubus
issue.
Now to recapitulate and reiterate the point I
first made about the significance
of these injuries (now backed by medical
testimony of the physiology involved).
It is a physiological certainty that if Nicole's
windpipe (trachea) had been
cut while she was still alive (her lungs and
heart were working), blood would
have gotten into it and had to have been
aspirated into her lungs.
As
Post by Incubus
Dr.
Baden specifically testified, that depends
entirely on "WHETHER THE PERSON
LIVES LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INHALE THE
BLOOD." To note again: whether blood is aspirated
into the lungs depends solely on whether (1) the
windpipe was cut (which it unquestionably was);
(2) there is bleeding into it (not directly
answered but had to be if she was alive); and (3)
if
she
Post by Incubus
was alive long enough thereafter to inhale it
(the absence of any blood in the lungs that must
have been there had she been alive when throat
was cut definitely answers this questions).
Baden's testimony therefore substantiates the
following set of
causal
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statements: If the windpipe of a living person is
cut, blood will
flow
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into the opening caused by the injury, and the
breathing of a living person through the hole cut
in the windpipe (and nose/mouth) will cause the
blood to be inhaled (aspirated) into the lungs.
If, on the other hand, a person's windpipe were
cut and there is no blood in it nor was any
aspirated into the lungs, the person could not
have
lived
Post by Incubus
The person with a
cut
Post by Incubus
throat who has no aspirated blood in her lungs
could neither have lived long enough after the
injury to have inhaled the blood, nor
could she therefore have bled to death from the
injury which would have
required her to be alive for some (albeit short)
period after the injury
occurred.
(End of citation).
So Prien is right again on all counts, proving
again the delusional folly of your claiming
otherwise.
Simpson killed Nicole and Ron a
nd Muslim terrorists attacked us with
airplanes to cause 9/11. It's simple. Don't you get
it? Nutcase...
Puma
Simple is as simple does.  Not even the simplem min
ded
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 ar
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e s
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tup
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id
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as
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you, though.  Obviously, at lest 40% o the public a
lre
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ady
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 re
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jec
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ts
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entirely your simpleminded ideocies, as do thousands
of architect, engineers, pilots, military officers
and the intelligence agencies of every major country
about 911.
I also notice you were utterly incapable of
rebutting even simplest facts and necessary
conclusions drawn therefrom that I provided about
why your simplemninded believes are all based on
lies.
I bet you also believe Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction.; Â
 T
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he
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Maine was blown up by the Spanish.  Oswald killed K
enn
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edy
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.
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Â
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 P
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igs can
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fly.  And the earth is flat.
You brain dead morons only hallucinate that your
delusional fantasies are truths.
Dream on.
Prien
Yeah, right. What color is the sky in your world?
See, incapable of addressing, much less refuting with
evidence a single point I raised each which which
demolishes your claims you brain dead moroins.  You
don't even try because you know an
y
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response will be smothered with a ton of truths and
facts from Prien..
You're question is proof of your irrelevance,
stupidity, idiocy and that you as all NoJs are know
noithings.  But you believe all the liess the
government tells you.  Good boy.  Here is a bone for y
ou.
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Nice puppy.
Prien
Don't have to "refute" anything as it has already been
refuted ad infinitum by No-Js and professionals alike
during the trial.
And planes flying into buildings just speaks for itself.
We don't need constant repetition to make ourselves
believe the unbelievable. If you say it enough times it
STILL won't be true.
Idiot.
Ah, the brain dead moron keeps on trucking sppewing forth
the inane productuion of his brainless herad.
So, planes flying into buildings speak for thmselves as
explanation iof how the buildings collapes.  Could you
tell us greatswamie which plane crashed into WTC 7 to
produce the collapse of that building. Only if you know,
idiot, but if none did, what plane speaks for the collpase
of that building.
Perhaps you can actually provide evidence that the
aircraft frame for the planes that took off as the flights
from Boston actually were found having crashed into the
any building.  This should be a piece o
f
Post by p***@aol.com
cake since NTSB has managerd to positively identify each
aircraft frame that was involved in any fatal crash they
had access to.  I'll even make it simple for you.  To
prove yo
ur
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
point about th
e
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
speaking planes, all you ned is documentation that the
balck boxes recovered from the planes match the black
boxes that were installed in those air frames.
All you need to do is post the real facts.
Why? You don't. You just make up and post your own
interpretations (wrong ones...) of evidence. It's not
"facts" cause YOU say it's "facts." Your statements are
irrational, irrelevant, delusions from your defective
reason.
I did post  facts.  You claimed the airplanes tiold the whole
 st
Post by p***@aol.com
ory
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
about the collapses.  I'm not claiming as facts because I say
so, you claimed it was the aircraft that told the facts.
 Okay, provid
e
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
the evidence and proof about the aircraft that crashed into
WTC that you claim is the fact that tells all about how the
structure collapsed. Since I did not claim that to be a fact,
I certainly don't have to provide any evience to prove it
when I declare that to be false.  No interpretation
 necessary.  N
ow,
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
to prove me wrong, about this,all
you
Post by p***@aol.com
need do is identify the aircraft the hit WTC that explains
how the building collapsed.  Yoiu made the claim.  Now prove
it.  Alos
 no
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
inrterpretation necessary.  Of course, if you provide no such
proof, then no interpretation is necessary to prove you are
an idiot or a liar.
Post by p***@aol.com
Until you do, all you have proved with your babblings is
that you are a member fo the groups Lincoln identified as
those who can be fooled all the time.
You were also so right about how the airplanes told the story
of 911. Now provide the authenticated pefidence that proves
that the airframes that took off as the flights allegedly
hijacked on 911 were also indeed the frames that crashed at
all four of the 911 crash sites. There is a simpe way for you
to do this.  Ever
y
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
aircraft frame has literally hundred in serially numbered
indestructible parts that are diocunebnted to have been
installed in that airframe when it took off.  Now provide
authenticated evidence that proves that any of such srially
numbered parts were found at any of the crash sites that
established the frame that crashed was undeed the identical
airframe that took off that mrning and was hijacked.
This should be a piee of cake.  There is a 911 Commission
that investigated the event and issued the government's
version that supposedly established what happened.  It is, of
course, impossibl
e
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
for this to be true unless that commission positively
identified with established with incontrovertible evidence
that the aicraft frames that wwere al;egedly hijacked were
exactly the same ones that crashed at the 911 crash sites.
 All the necessary documented evidence should then be in that
report.  Unless, of course, the report is nothing but a pack
of lies that covered up what actually happened.
So see how easy I've made it for you to prove me wrong.  Go
for it
.
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Prien
Yeah, right. While you are so believable. NOT!!! Fool.
Right,  And if you fail to provide the necessary proof, you
are just another brain dead moron NoJ retard exposed by
Prien
Dance, puppet!
Puppet.  I lay out how you can beat me, and you have nothig to
say
.
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by p***@aol.com
Chiiiiiiickeeeeeeeeen.  Chiiiiiiiiiickeeen.NO proof from another
brai
n
Post by p***@aol.com
dead moron NoJ retard destroyed by the Invincible
Prien
Keep dancing, Lunatic.
Calls me a lunaetic, but can't meet the simple challenge I posed
that he provide evidence that positively identifies the aircraft
frames that crashed as the frames that took of as the hijacked
flights.
Cheick, chick cheikeeeeeen; chick, chick chikeeen
And the brain dead moron NOj retard imebecilic cretin yet again
ripped to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Invincible? Ha! More like "impenetrable"! The planes took down the
buildings. There is video of it happening.
Plane hit the Pentagon. Video.
Simpson as much as admitted he killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
Evidence proved it. Money and fame paid off witnesses to say otherwise.
Muslims in planes. Simpson with a knife. Cases closed.
Prien -- needs psychological evaluation and professional help. Fool.
Great.  The planes hit the building.  BUt are the air frames that
crashed idential to the air frames thattook off and were allegedly
hijacked.  Now, to prove me wrong, instead more hot air babble that
simpy repeats your claims, all you need to is to post the
authenticated evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the air frames
that crashed are identical to the ones that took off.  You're so sure
of yourself, this should be a piece of cake.  And you claim it was all
done by these Muslims.  It should then be even easier to post the
pssanger lists the airlines published the next day that ideifies the
names of each hijacker.  See how easy I make it for you to prove the
case is really close with actual and documented evidence instrad from
the gas you're blowing from your ass.
So post it. I will be waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiting.  BUt not holding
my breath.
And unless you post it, you are still the brain dead moron NOj retard
imebecilic cretin ripped
to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Finishes same as started. Yes. Freak.
Right. Nitwad NoJ makes a bunch of claims, I challenge him on
numerous issues and call his bluff by demanding he provide evidence
for his empty claims. He responds merely by calling me names, but
providing not a scintilla of evidence that validates his claims beyond
repeating them ad nauseum. So I am back where I started, demanding
that he provide evidence to prove his claims, because all he has
managed so far is to blow gas out of his ass like every NoJ who has
never managed to provide evidence to prove anything beyond repeating
their allegatiions that Simpson did it, the Muslims did 911, Oswald
did JFK, blah, blah, blah.
But providing any real proof and evidence for any of their bluster.
Nah.

That's why unless you post relal, physical evidence that substantiates
your claims, you remain the brain dead moron NOj retard
imebecilic, idiotic cretin ripped to shreds by the invicible

Prien
Puma
2010-07-31 21:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
imebecilic, idiotic cretin ripped to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Shouldn't that read "brain dead" instead of invincible? Unless it means
something different in YOUR WORLD!

Assclown.
p***@aol.com
2010-08-01 23:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
 imebecilic, idiotic cretin ripped to shreds by the invicible
Prien
Shouldn't that read "brain dead" instead of invincible? Unless it means
something different in YOUR WORLD!
Assclown.
So the man who declares the planes tell the whole story is challenged
to produce evidence that proves beyond question the turth of his claim
with real eivdence that the aircraft frames that tookoff as the
hijaled flights were identical to the ones that crashed in the various
locations where the Arabs attacks. He prtoduced nothing but gas from
his ass as proof and calling his challenger names for daring to demand
he prive his claims. That, of course, is par for the course because
NoJs know nothing about evience or proof. they merely believe their
accusations are all the proof nweed, and calling people names for not
believing their lies establishes their superior knowledge. Produce
the proof the frame are identical, or you cntinue to be the brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard NoJ destroyed by the invicible

Prien.
PS. And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a fact
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
Puma
2010-08-02 20:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
PS. And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a fact
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your snivelling
dancing has become tiresome.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
p***@aol.com
2010-08-04 01:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a fact
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your snivelling
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Bozo brains refers me to the Popular Mechanisms attempt to validate
the 911 fraud. Can you point to where in this article they positively
identify that the air frames that took off as the allegedly hijacked
flights are in fact the airframes that crashed at the various sites by
identifying the serially numbered parts documented to be installed on
the airframes of the planes the took off that were found at the crash
sites. Could you do that bozo brain? I mean this is not a DIFFICULT
TASK IF THE EVIDENCE WAS THERE. Of course, I can understand your
relucance and inability to address the issue if I was sending you on a
mission impossible beause the necessary evidence did not exit. Which
would then prove there is no evidence whatever that the aIRCRAFT
FRAMES THE TOOK OFF AS THE ALLEGEDLY HIJACKED FLIGHTS ARE THE ONES
THAT CRASHED.
WHICH CAN THEN ONLY MEAN THAT DIFFERENT PLANES CRASHED THAN THE ONES
THAT TOOK OF. So the planes o indeed tell the shole story that proves
this whole thing is a huge conspiracy. But you could prove me wrong
simply by producing the necessary evidence that the aircaft frames
that took off are the ones that crashed.

You haven't done it because you can't do it, so all you can do is call
me names.

And you remains as the brain dead moron imbecile cretenisitic
mongoloidc idiot turned into splinters by the invincible

Prien
Puma
2010-08-04 13:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
You haven't done it because you can't do it, so all you can do is call
me names.
And I'll do it again. Moron. Read the site I posted and learn the truth.

Puma - the Omnipotent
p***@aol.com
2010-08-05 22:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a fact
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your snivelling
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Of course you are calling me names, you sniveling curd. Beause you
have no facts, evidence, truth, reason or anything of value or
substance to contribute to any sane discussion on any subject. You
are nothing but a riresome twirp too stupid to even realize he is just
another brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
demolished by the invicible

Prien

You are also way too clumsy to dance. and I will hound you for as long
as you dare to reveal your stupidity, incompetence and your huffing,
puffing and Bozo burbling..
Puma
2010-08-08 15:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Puma
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a f
act
Post by Puma
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your snivelling
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Of course you are calling me names, you sniveling curd. Beause you
have no facts, evidence, truth, reason or anything of value or
substance to contribute to any sane discussion on any subject. You
are nothing but a riresome twirp too stupid to even realize he is just
another brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
demolished by the invicible
Prien
Yawn. Too stupid for words or to digest the definitive information in the
link I provided. I have destroyed you and your imaginary blabber. You are a
fool and live in your own world. Dumbass.

King Puma
p***@aol.com
2010-08-08 23:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Puma
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing a f
act
Post by Puma
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on your
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your snivelling
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Of course you are calling me names, you sniveling curd.  Beause you
have no facts, evidence, truth, reason or anything of value or
substance to contribute to any sane discussion on any subject.  You
are nothing but a riresome twirp too stupid to even realize he is just
another brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
demolished by the invicible
Prien
Yawn. Too stupid for words or to digest the definitive information in the
link I provided. I have destroyed you and your imaginary blabber. You are a
fool and live in your own world. Dumbass.
King Puma- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The king of bimblebrainas continues his bozoburbles of empty phrases
that that are no more than gas out of his ass because he continues to
be unable tyo provide the evidence necessary to prove me wrong that
the air frame sthat took off that were alleged;y hijacked are indeed
the air frames that crashed into the WTC. I made it so simple for you
to prove me wrong, but all you can do is call me names and babble on.
Go to it. But you remain as just another brain dead imbedlicil moron
retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
Stalingraded by the invicible

Prien
Puma
2010-08-09 14:18:12 UTC
Permalink
news:3470a251-ecc2-4498-aed8-
news:0397863e-0137-409f-ba54-
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing
a f
act
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on
you
r
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your
snivelli
ng
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Of course you are calling me names, you sniveling curd.  Beause you
have no facts, evidence, truth, reason or anything of value or
substance to contribute to any sane discussion on any subject.  You
are nothing but a riresome twirp too stupid to even realize he is
just another brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
demolished by the invicible
Prien
Yawn. Too stupid for words or to digest the definitive information in
the link I provided. I have destroyed you and your imaginary blabber.
You are
a
fool and live in your own world. Dumbass.
King Puma- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[...]
... I made it so simple for you
to prove me wrong, but all you can do is call me names and babble on.
Go to it.
Prien
Go for it? I already went for it but you seem to have missed it:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

OK?

I could go on for 100's of more lines but your puny intellect still
wouldn't grasp the significance nor the finality of this site's proof.

You are wrong. I am right and supported by REAL scientific evidence (see
above) not some made-up foolishness and imaginary "facts" like you try to
show.

Face it, you are a Quixotic-like tard with a head full of delusions. You
should seriously seek psychological help. Quickly!

You have become tiresome. Go away.

Puma - Master of the Domain
p***@aol.com
2010-08-09 23:19:39 UTC
Permalink
news:3470a251-ecc2-4498-aed8-
news:0397863e-0137-409f-ba54-
 PS.  And no, I am not calling you names, I am merely providing
a f
act
based characterization of your intelectual capabilities based on
you
r
failure to address with evidence any issue about the case.
I am calling YOU names. Lunatic. Read this and shut up!! Your
snivelli
ng
dancing has become tiresome.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Of course you are calling me names, you sniveling curd.  Beause you
have no facts, evidence, truth, reason or anything of value or
substance to contribute to any sane discussion on any subject.  You
are nothing but a riresome twirp too stupid to even realize he is
just another brain
dead imbedlicil moron retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
demolished by the invicible
Prien
Yawn. Too stupid for words or to digest the definitive information in
the link I provided. I have destroyed you and your imaginary blabber.
You are
 a
fool and live in your own world. Dumbass.
King Puma- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
 [...]
... I made it so simple for you
to prove me wrong, but all you can do is call me names and babble on.
Go to it.
Prien
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
OK?
I could go on for 100's of more lines but your puny intellect still
wouldn't grasp the significance nor the finality of this site's proof.
You are wrong. I am right and supported by REAL scientific evidence (see
above) not some made-up foolishness and imaginary "facts" like you try to
show.
Face it, you are a Quixotic-like tard with a head full of delusions. You
should seriously seek psychological help. Quickly!
You have become tiresome. Go away.
Puma - Master of the Domain- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
More Bozobirbles from the Master of the Domain of Know Nothings. You
can repost that article a million times, but a single truth from Prien
destroys a million postings of what have been proven as a pack of lies
on the 911 truth sites as will be obvious o anyone reading their
feeble and futile efforts o shore up the fraudulent government story
that even the members of the commission who produced it have now
denounced.

But I already responded to the last time you posted it, and note that
you have still failed to meet the challenge I posed. That being that
if the events occurred as claimed, and all the death and destruction
was caused by the aircraft that took off as the allegedly hijacked
flights, then the exremely simple task you need to perform to prove it
is to provide evidence that positively identifies that the aircraft
frames that crashed were, indeed the aircraft frames that took off as
the allegedly hijacked flights. You can easily do this by providing
evidence that serially numbered parts were found at the crash sites
that were identical to parts that were documented to have been
installed in the aircraft frames of the planes that took off as the
allegedly hijacked flights. I'll even make it easy for you. A wheel
assmebly waas found on one the streets that purportedly came from one
of the crashed flights. That wheel assembly included numerous
serially numbered parts that would have been documented to have been
installed in the aircraft. Now all you have to do is produc a
matching list of parts found at the crash site with parts documented
to be installed in the crashed plane. And if your Popular Mechanics
article is really the proof you claim it is, it whould contain a long
list of such parts.

Absent such alist, the aticle is a proven pack of lies, and you
remain. as just another brain dead imbedlicil moron
retard who is too stupid to pour piss out of
boot with the instructions written on the heel who continues to be
Stalingraded by the invicible

Prien


And you are really tiresome and boring when yiou are unable to do more
than repeat your past bozoburbles that are no more than gas blown out
your ass that you kkeep trying to convince people is sweet smelling
perfume.
Puma
2010-08-10 14:15:10 UTC
Permalink
[...] snipped line after line of hallucinatory, made-up nonsense
if the events occurred as claimed, and all the death and destruction
was caused by the aircraft that took off as the allegedly hijacked
flights, then the exremely simple task you need to perform to prove it
is to provide evidence that positively identifies that the aircraft
frames that crashed were, indeed the aircraft frames that took off as
the allegedly hijacked flights.
Easy. Just by fact that YOU think otherwise tells any SANE (note difference
from you) person that what you say must be incorrect on a scale of infinite
proportion. If 'Prien' believes it, is has to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

Now THAT is fact, too.

Face it, you live and write in a complete other world from normal humans.
How did you get computer access in a special school or facility?

Again, you are proven -- PROVEN! -- to be a delusional assclown. Deal with
it.

Your babble is inconsequential and vapid.

BOO!!! Run freak.
p***@aol.com
2010-08-12 00:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
 [...] snipped line after line of hallucinatory, made-up nonsense
if the events occurred as claimed, and all the death and destruction
was caused by the aircraft that took off as the allegedly hijacked
flights, then the exremely simple task you need to perform to prove it
is to provide evidence that positively identifies that the aircraft
frames that crashed were, indeed the aircraft frames that took off as
the allegedly hijacked flights.
Easy. Just by fact that YOU think otherwise tells any SANE (note difference
from you) person that what you say must be incorrect on a scale of infinite
proportion. If 'Prien' believes it, is has to be wrong, wrong, wrong.
Now THAT is fact, too.
Face it, you live and write in a complete other world from normal humans.
How did you get computer access in a special school or facility?
Again, you are proven -- PROVEN! -- to be a delusional assclown. Deal with
it.
Your babble is inconsequential and vapid.
BOO!!! Run freak.
See, all he can do is spout silly bozoburbles that prove he has an
empty head and no synapses that connect. Your feeble stabs at insults
are too juvenile to merit consideration. And you can spout all you
want about how I am a delusional clown, but it is you who cannot
produce a single piece of physcial evidence that establishes that the
airfames that took off as the allegedly hijcaked flights ended up
anywhere near any of the crash sites that caused the death and
destruction on 911. Without that evidence that is absolutely
essential to prove that 911 happened as you claim, all you keep doing
is blasting gas out your ass. You can also keep repeating the tired
cliches that purport to explain 911, but unless and until you provide
the necessary physical proof, you have not a scintilla of proof to
dipsute my claim that the planes that took off that were allegedly
hijacked were, in fact, not the ones that crashed. Your attempts to
say otherwise are the porduct of nothing but delusional fantasies
without that evidence to prove it.

So you cantinue to be the delusional nitwit hallucinating brain dead
moron retarded idiot who keeps being pulversized by

Prien

P.S. And I just love to hammer clowns like you. I must admit,
though, you are so sophmoric that it's like shotting fish in a barrel,
taking candy from a baby, or selling Mnahattan bridges to the world's
biggest suckers.
Puma
2010-08-12 20:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
BOO!!! Run freak.
Your feeble stabs at insults are too juvenile to merit consideration.
Yet you "consider" my supposedly juvenile proofs and names over and over.
Liar and fool!!! YOU cannot refute them!
...but it is you who cannot
produce a single piece of physcial evidence that establishes that the
airfames that took off as the allegedly hijcaked flights ended up
anywhere near any of the crash sites that caused the death and
destruction on 911.
HAHAHAHAHA, neither can you! Neither can the fool prien produce any REAL
proof of anything. Key word being "real" which is not within your
capabilities.

Quick, look behind you! It's the government boogey-man coming to get your
"invincible" ass. BOO!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Your puniness is laughable. Run, kook...
p***@aol.com
2010-08-14 22:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Puma
BOO!!! Run freak.
 Your feeble stabs at insults are too juvenile to merit consideration.  
Yet you "consider" my supposedly juvenile proofs and names over and over.
Liar and fool!!! YOU cannot refute them!
...but it is you who cannot
produce a single piece of physcial evidence that establishes that the
airfames that took off as the allegedly hijcaked flights ended up
anywhere near any of the crash sites that caused the death and
destruction on 911.
HAHAHAHAHA, neither can you! Neither can the fool prien produce any REAL
proof of anything. Key word being "real" which is not within your
capabilities.
Quick, look behind you! It's the government boogey-man coming to get your
"invincible" ass. BOO!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Your puniness is laughable. Run, kook...
The juvenile delinquent continues with his Bozoburbles. Hey dummy, it
wasn't I who claimed the planes told the whole story. You did. If
that's true, then the essential proof that it happneed as you claimed
is that you be able to produce real, physcial evidence that
establishes that the AIRFRAMES THAT CRASHED were in fact the ones that
took off. I have told you ow to do that. You have failed to produce
a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your claims despite
repeated being challnged to do so. Your failure to produce it is all
the proof I need to establish it does not exist. And if that proof
does not exist, it prives beyond a doubt that my claim that the planes
that crashed were different from the ones that took off is true or you
would have produced it. And if the planes that creashed are not
identiical to the ones that took off, then all your claims are bogus
nonsense.

But let's see why the documented parts installed in the airframes are
the proof that's necessary. Suppose yiou seek to indentify a person.
There are three basic ways to go about it. One, you compare the
person's fingerprints to the dats base of known fingerprints of
individuals, and the match with a known person identified the unknown
person. You can use DNA doe rtguia puerpose in the same way. Dental
or medical records are another way to establish the identify of the
unknown person with the known person. In exactly the same way, the
documeed serially numbered paerts installed in the air frames of the
planes that took off aas the allegedl;y hijacked flights are the
essntial peicves necessary to identify the planes that crashed to
establish that they are, indeed, exactly the same.

Now, if the fignerprints, DNA or medical records don't match up with
the person alleged to be the unknown, then he is obviously not that
person. I realize this is too deep for a NoJ, but the same principle
applies to identifying the crashed planes.

You can't supply teh evidence that proves any link at all between the
crashed planes and the planes that ook off as the allegedly hijakced
flights. It's because you can't that proves you are both an idiot and
too incompetent to understand the issues.

Without the necessary physical proof that positively identifies the
crashed planes as the ones that were hijacked, you remain delusional
nitwit hallucinating brain dead
moron retarded idiot NoJ who keeps being pulversized by


Prien
Puma
2010-08-15 14:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
The juvenile delinquent continues with his Bozoburbles. Hey dummy, it
wasn't I who claimed the planes told the whole story. You did.
And I provided a carefully detailed website to prove all things to you. You
conveniently ignore this hard science and, instead, offer your delusional,
madeup "facts" (which are only factual in prien-world). Unacceptable.
Wrong. Fail.
Post by p***@aol.com
I have told you ow to do that. You have failed to produce
a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your claims despite
repeated being challnged to do so.
"You have told me how". I'm so sure! You are not a source of anything but
delusion so I nor anyone else will take what you tell us. Fool. You've
provided nothing but imaginary BS.
Post by p***@aol.com
Without the necessary physical proof that positively identifies the
crashed planes as the ones that were hijacked, you remain delusional
nitwit hallucinating brain dead
moron retarded idiot NoJ who keeps being pulversized by
Prien
And since you haven't provided anything but delusional, personal theory you
fail as miserably as you live.

Don't go away mad. JUST GO AWAY!!! You bore me with your nothing. I've
grown tired of you (as has 99.9% of the population).

Be gone, idiot.

Puma -- Master
p***@aol.com
2010-08-17 23:44:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
The juvenile delinquent continues with his Bozoburbles.  Hey dummy, it
wasn't I who claimed the planes told the whole story.  You did.
And I provided a carefully detailed website to prove all things to you. You
conveniently ignore this hard science and, instead, offer your delusional,
madeup "facts" (which are only factual in prien-world). Unacceptable.
Wrong. Fail.
I have told you ow to do that.  You have failed to produce
a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your claims despite
repeated being challnged to do so.
"You have told me how". I'm so sure! You are not a source of anything but
delusion so I nor anyone else will take what you tell us. Fool. You've
provided nothing but imaginary BS.
Without the necessary physical proof that positively identifies the
crashed planes as the ones that were hijacked, you remain  delusional
nitwit hallucinating brain dead
moron retarded idiot NoJ who keeps being pulversized by
Prien
And since you haven't provided anything but delusional, personal theory you
fail as miserably as you live.
Don't go away mad. JUST GO AWAY!!! You bore me with your nothing. I've
grown tired of you (as has 99.9% of the population).
Be gone, idiot.
Puma -- Master
And the Master of idiocy managed neither to meet nor refute any of my
challenged to provide the evidence necessary to erstablish his claim
that the planes that were hijacked were alo the ones tyhat crashed at
the murtder sites on 911. Not s ingle, eensie weeeeeensie serially
numbered parts that identified that the planes that crashed were
actyually the ones that took off that were allegedly hijacked. Not
one part.

Proof of total futility. Intellectual sterility. Sewer mentality.
But hey, you're a NoJ, so that's the most you can do.

As for your total inability to meet my challenge to provide evidence
to identify the planes that crashed, unless and until you can provide
such proof, my declaration that the planes that crashed were not the
ones that took off, and that different planes were substituted for
them is unimpeachable and irrefutable because that's the minimum
evidence you need to prove me wrong. And to make it clear to you,
unlesa and until you provide it, tyhe lack of such evidence proves me
totally right.

That is FACT IS WHY NEITER YOU NOR THE GOVERNMENT HAS MANAGED TO
PROVIDE EVEN ONE TEEENSY WEEEINSIE LITLE PART THAT PROVES IT.

Let me also assure you thatI will never begone and will instead hound
you to the ends of the earth until you post the necessary evidencd
which I knoqw can and never will happend because it doesn't exist.

That's why you will also remain the delusional nitwit hallucinating
brain dead moron retarded idiot NoJ who keeps being pummeled to
oblivion by the totally INVINCIBLE

Prien
Puma
2010-08-18 15:19:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
That is FACT IS WHY NEITER YOU NOR THE GOVERNMENT HAS MANAGED TO
PROVIDE EVEN ONE TEEENSY WEEEINSIE LITLE PART THAT PROVES IT.
Now you're smarter than the entire government? You are more brain-addled
than first thought!

No, you live in a dark, personal psychotic world of your own. I must
compliment you on your being able to type and use a computer.

But, so can a monkey so I guess it isn't that big of a deal, afterall.

No, you are in a mental facility or a residential home for the retarded.
You are delusional and nothing anyone can say or proof they can provide
(which I've done) can obviously make a dent in your armored skull.

Give it up. Move on.

Try basket-weaving. Or coloring books...
p***@aol.com
2010-08-22 22:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
That is FACT IS WHY NEITER YOU NOR THE GOVERNMENT HAS MANAGED TO
PROVIDE EVEN ONE TEEENSY WEEEINSIE LITLE PART THAT PROVES IT.
Now you're smarter than the entire government? You are more brain-addled
than first thought!
No, you live in a dark, personal psychotic world of your own. I must
compliment you on your being able to type and use a computer.
But, so can a monkey so I guess it isn't that big of a deal, afterall.
No, you are in a mental facility or a residential home for the retarded.
You are delusional and nothing anyone can say or proof they can provide
(which I've done) can obviously make a dent in your armored skull.
Give it up. Move on.
Try basket-weaving. Or coloring books...
You're not even up to basket weaving or coloring books. I do note
that you have failed depiste all your bozoburbles, you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to proive that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked. Until you manage that, you dont' qualify even for coloring
books, ansd unless and unti youj do, my charge that the planes that
crashed were not in fact the air frames that took off is irrefutabke
and unchallengable, and you remain the brain dead moron, mogoloid
idiot, feeble minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who continues to be
flogged to death byt the invicible and unassailable

Prien
Puma
2010-08-23 20:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to proive that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked.
Neither have you, idiot. Your foolish ranting has become tiresome.

BEGONE, FOOL!!!

Puma -- the Master
p***@aol.com
2010-08-26 23:19:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to proive that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked.
Neither have you, idiot. Your foolish ranting has become tiresome.
BEGONE, FOOL!!!
Puma -- the Master
The master Bozoburbler has, however, proves he still is not even up to
basket weaving or coloring books. I do note
that despite all your bozoburbles, you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to prove that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked. Until you manage that, you dont' qualify even for coloring
books, and unless and until you do, my charge that the planes that
crashed were not in fact the air frames that took off is irrefutable
and unchallengable, and you remain the brain dead moron, mogoloid
idiot, feeble minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who continues to be
flogged to death by the invicible and unassailable

Prien
Puma
2010-08-28 14:44:29 UTC
Permalink
... you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to prove that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked.
Yawn. Neither have you. So shut up.
... my charge that the planes that
crashed were not in fact the air frames that took off is irrefutable
and unchallengable,
Only things "irrefutable" or "unchallengable" are the density of your skull
and total lack of evidence and logic.

Go away.

Puma -- Master Prien-schooler
p***@aol.com
2010-08-31 23:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
... you have failed to
provide the tiniest, teensiest piece of evidence to prove that the
air framwes that creashed aT ANY OF THE MURDER sires were indeed the
airc frames that took off and were allegedly the flights that were
hijacked.
Yawn. Neither have you. So shut up.
... my charge that the planes that
crashed were not in fact the air frames that took off is irrefutable
and unchallengable,
Only things "irrefutable" or "unchallengable" are the density of your skull
and total lack of evidence and logic.
Go away.
Puma -- Master  Prien-schooler
The bozoborbler reveals his complete stupidy by claiming I have not
provided any proof thatsubstaniates his claim that the planes that
crashed were the ones that took off. Master idiot, since I make no
such claim, I have no obligation whatever to produce any evidence to
support it.e the one making the claim, but I notice you have still
failed to produce an iota of a teeensieee weeeeeeensieeeeeebit of
evidence that substantiates your claim. And until you do, you
rremain the brain dead moron, mogoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty
headed NO J imbecile who continues to be flogged to death by the
invicible and unassailable

Prien

PS The earth will stand still before I am begone from your trifling
bull shit. This is getting to be great fun.
Puma
2010-09-01 20:49:58 UTC
Permalink
"***@aol.com" <***@aol.com> wrote in news:44993d7a-1d1a-44f6-9591-***@h19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

"I am a complete idiot. I have no, nor have I provided anything salient to
any discussion of events on 9/11."

"But I continue to babble in complete self-absorbed lunacy because I don't
know anything different. I AM an idiot's idiot. Puma wins."

Puma -- Idiot Exorcist
p***@aol.com
2010-09-03 22:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
"I am a complete idiot. I have no, nor have I provided anything salient to
any discussion of events on 9/11."
"But I continue to babble in complete self-absorbed lunacy because I don't
know anything different. I AM an idiot's idiot. Puma wins."
Puma -- Idiot Exorcist
You have perfectly described yourself because you indeed have provided
not a scintilla of evidence proving that that planes that took off
that were allegedly hijacked because seerially numbered parts found at
the crash site were documented as having been installed on them whe
they took off, information that would be readily available had your
claim been true.

Every time you continue keep spouting your Bozoburbles without
providing that proof, you prove me right.

All you instead manage is self serving babblings that keep on proving
that you will forever remnain the brain dead moron, mogoloid idiot,
feeble minded, empty
headed NO J imbecile who continues to be flogged to death by the
invicible and unassailable

Prien
Puma
2010-09-04 21:16:02 UTC
Permalink
... you indeed have provided
not a scintilla of evidence proving that that planes that took off
that were allegedly hijacked because seerially numbered parts found at
the crash site were documented as having been installed on them whe
they took off, information that would be readily available had your
claim been true
You have provided nothing but laughable and pathetic, sad, self-deluded
musings. You know NOTHING! You have provided NOTHING! You are sick in the
head and have waaaaay too much time.

Your handlers need to keep closer watch over you lest you hurt yourself.
They are leaving the restraints off for too long, allowing you to type this
nonsense.

One again the Puma-genius has bested you and highlighted your mentally
unstable rants.

You lose. I win. Go away.

Puma - the Magnificent
Ragnar
2010-09-18 02:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
... you indeed have provided
not a scintilla of evidence proving that that planes that took off
that were allegedly hijacked because seerially numbered parts found at
the crash site were documented as having been installed on them whe
they took off, information that would be readily available had your
claim been true
You have provided nothing but laughable and pathetic, sad, self-deluded
musings. You know NOTHING! You have provided NOTHING! You are sick in the
head and have waaaaay too much time.
Your handlers need to keep closer watch over you lest you hurt yourself.
They are leaving the restraints off for too long, allowing you to type this
nonsense.
One again the Puma-genius has bested you and highlighted your mentally
unstable rants.
You lose. I win. Go away.
Puma - the Magnificent
Only Prien could think that 'Bozoburbles' is a logical argument, or
retort, to anything. Then again, only Prien would think any of the
arguments he makes have any point at all. I'm sure even the other
inmates at the asylum know that Prien would need another brain just to
be considered a half-wit.

Ragnar
Puma
2010-09-18 21:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Only Prien could think that 'Bozoburbles' is a logical argument, or
retort, to anything. Then again, only Prien would think any of the
arguments he makes have any point at all. I'm sure even the other
inmates at the asylum know that Prien would need another brain just to
be considered a half-wit.
Ragnar
Dude! Where have you been? The Preinster has been here pontificating for a
few months! He hasn't lost a step -- if by "lost a step" you mean advanced
to a middle-school level.

And he hasn't lost the tiniest bit of self-congratulatory, self-importance,
either.

It's been hell. (hahahaha)

Puma - The Prein-Slayer
p***@aol.com
2010-09-22 02:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Only Prien could think that 'Bozoburbles' is a logical argument, or
retort, to anything. Then again, only Prien would think any of the
arguments he makes have any point at all. I'm sure even the other
inmates at the asylum know that Prien would need another brain just to
be considered a half-wit.
Ragnar
Dude! Where have you been? The Preinster has been here pontificating for a
few months! He hasn't lost a step -- if by "lost a step" you mean advanced
to a middle-school level.
And he hasn't lost the tiniest bit of self-congratulatory, self-importance,
either.
It's been hell. (hahahaha)
Puma - The Prein-Slayer
If you imagie yourself to be thr "Prein-slayer," then perhaps you can
post the proof that that identified the serially numbered parts that
were found at the 911 crash sites that were documented to have been
installed in the air framers that took off on 911 that supposed
crashed there. Despite all my challenged, rather than posting the
necessary evidence, you have been reduced to Bozoburblwe name-calling
that you imagine counts for somethign besides provding you are a
vacuum head. Of course, you have been scouring heaven and hell to
find that evidence to prove Prien qworng, but your faiolure to post it
proves beyond question your searches are futile because the evidence
does not exist for the simple reason that either the planes that rook
off did not crash into the building as claimed by the government, or
if they did, they were enirely disintegrated proving the excploasive
forces necesasary to do so are beyind anything know readily avialble
to bin Laden and his hijackers. In either case, the lack of such
proof establish byond question or doubt that you are totally wrong and
prien is entirely right about 911. So go back to playing in your sand
box.

Until you post the necessary proof, you remain the brain dead moron,
mogoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who
continues to be flogged to death by the invicible and unassailable

Prien
Puma
2010-09-22 14:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Puma
Puma - The Prein-Slayer
If you imagie yourself to be thr "Prein-slayer," then perhaps you can
post the proof that that identified the serially numbered parts that
were found at the 911 crash sites that were documented to have been
installed in the air framers that took off on 911 that supposed
crashed there.
I don't need to provide anything that makes no sense and is not proved by
you. Because you can't. And I'm not.

I provided a comprehensive website to dismiss ALL of your dimwitted
"theories" (more like fantasies) but you are too ignorant and obstinate to
realize everything -- EVERY SINGLE THING -- you write is wrong. Not just a
little wrong. But 100% wrong. And you are a fool.
Post by p***@aol.com
Until you post the necessary proof, you remain the brain dead moron,
mogoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who
continues to be flogged to death by the invicible and unassailable
Prien
Nice job of not name-calling (like you always whine about -- like a
hypocritical bitch). But yeah, THAT'S gonna happen! You keep waiting. I've
posted a site to show you the TRUTH (I know, not what you're used to) but
you avoid it like a bath.

Go get some smarts.

Fool.

Puma the Magnificent
p***@aol.com
2010-09-23 02:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Puma
Puma - The Prein-Slayer
If you imagie yourself to be thr "Prein-slayer,"  then perhaps you can
post the proof that that identified the serially numbered parts that
were found at the 911 crash sites that were documented to have been
installed in the air framers that took off on 911 that supposed
crashed there.
I don't need to provide anything that makes no sense and is not proved by
you. Because you can't. And I'm not.
I provided a comprehensive website to dismiss ALL of your dimwitted
"theories" (more like fantasies) but you are too ignorant and obstinate to
realize everything -- EVERY SINGLE THING -- you write is wrong. Not just a
little wrong. But 100% wrong. And you are a fool.
Until you post the necessary proof, you remain  the brain dead moron,
mogoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who
continues to be flogged to death by the invicible and unassailable
Prien
Nice job of not name-calling (like you always whine about -- like a
hypocritical bitch). But yeah, THAT'S gonna happen! You keep waiting. I've
posted a site to show you the TRUTH (I know, not what you're used to) but
you avoid it like a bath.
Go get some smarts.
Fool.
Puma the Magnificent
Your babbling just proves what a fool you are and how little you
comprehend anything. Yeah, you referred to an article that merely
rehashes the lies told by the 911 Commission many of whose members are
now denouncing their own report. BUt you obviously didn't notice
that. Then you cavalierly dismiss my challenge that you produce
evidence that proves with the serially numbered parts found at the
crash sites that establsihes to a certainty that they are the planes
that took off as the flgihts that were hijacked when those parts are
documented by maintenance records to have been installed in the
crashed planes. You are obviously too brain damaged to understand
that the key evidence needed to prove that the passengers on those
flights were in fact murdered, it is first and foremost necessary to
prove beyond question that the planes they were on actually are the
ones that crashed to establish they died in those crashes. Without
that, there is not even proof that the passengers were murdered. To
do that, it is nercessary to positively identify the crashed planes as
the ones that took off. Not assume it to be true, but prove it.
Anyone with active brain cells can instantly grasp the import of the
challenge. It is you who allege the planes that took off that were
hijacked are the ones that crashed into the WTC, the Pentagon and in
PA, not I. The burden of proof that this happenedd is on you as the
person making that claim, not on me to prove that it didn't happen,
because unless you can prove that it did,. I have proven that it
didn't.

That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you. rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened. I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did. I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.

Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes. Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified. But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response. While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation. You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument. Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron. Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.

It is then especially amusing that you proclaim yourself the
magnificent. Now there was Lorenzo the Magnificent (the Medici ruler
of Florence) and Suleiman the Magnificent (an Ottoman ruler) who,
however, had the titles bestowed on them for their great
accomplishments. You might have a basis for laying claim to your
title had you produced the evidence establishing that the serially
numbered parts recovered at the crash sites positively identified the
planes that crashed there. BUt you have utterly failed to accomplish
anything, thus the crown you seek to place on your head again just
proves you are nothing more than a magnificant idiot little boy who
should return to play in his sandbox rather that botgher the public
with his babblings. And that is also why unless you produce the
necessary evidence that positively identifies the crashed planes with
the serially numbered parts, you remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible

Prien

Invincible because you have utterly failed to provide the necessary
proof to defeat a single, solitary point I have raised. Your efforts
have in fact been so futile you would be far more successfully trying
to demolish the Pyramids with a feather duster.

Keep on hustling boy, because I will never tire of turning you into
mincemeat. And since I will be retiring in a few days, I will just
love to keep on beating you up.
Puma
2010-09-23 21:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Keep on hustling boy, because I will never tire of turning you into
mincemeat.
You misspelled "eating your dust and falling down in awe" as mincemeat.
Post by p***@aol.com
And since I will be retiring in a few days, I will just
love to keep on beating you up.
Oh, so somewhere a punching bag will be missing? Too bad.

Go study. What passes for intellect in your world (BTW, what color is the
sky in that fetid place?) is around a 60 I.Q. Sad.

Puma -- King of Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-09-29 00:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
 Keep on hustling boy, because I will never tire of turning you into
mincemeat.  
You misspelled "eating your dust and falling down in awe" as mincemeat.
And since I will be retiring in a few days, I will just
love to keep on beating you up.
Oh, so somewhere a punching bag will be missing? Too bad.
Go study. What passes for intellect in your world (BTW, what color is the
sky in that fetid place?) is around a 60 I.Q. Sad.
Puma -- King of Prien
Puma the King of bull shit has resorted entirely to namelycalling as
an argumenr since he obviously avoided aDDRESSING a single issue I
raised. Par for the course for NoJ, and yiou are now acting exactly
as Grriffin did after I destroyed his claims for why OJ must have done
it. And just like him, I continue to notice that you have still
failed to produce a single [iece of evidence that proves that the
serially numbered parts that are documeted to have been installed in
the planes that took of as UA 11 and AA 175 were ever found ast the
crash sdite that proverd beyomnd doub tthat the plamnes that took off
as those flights were the ones that actually crashed. So to make it
absolutely clear to you that I am not calling you naes but merely
characterizing your intellectual capabilities, if you keep babbling
that the WTC towers collapses because flights 11 and 175 crashed into
them, then unless and until you provide the vidence that serially
numbered parts docmented by maintnance records were found at the crash
site that positively identifed the crashed planes, you remain you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible


Prien
Ragnar
2010-09-24 01:46:51 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by p***@aol.com
That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you. rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened. I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did. I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.
Nice try. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact
that no public announcement has ever been made as to whether any parts
have ever even been compared, let alone matched, proves exactly that:
no public announcement of such a match (or attempt to match) has ever
been made. It does not prove that such a match has been attempted and
failed, not even that such a match has ever been attempted. It proves
nothing except that we have no evidence of a match of serial numbers,
positive or negative.

You assert that this match cannot be made, and your proof is that
since no one has ever released evidence that the serial numbers match,
then they cannot match.

By your logic, since you have never publicly posted your birth
certificate to this forum, it means you cannot prove you were ever
born, and in fact it proves that you are not alive. See how that
works?
Post by p***@aol.com
Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes.  Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified.  But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response.  While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation.  You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument.  Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron.  Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.
Here we see the logic twisting of Prien on full display. He takes one
fact, that none of the recovered cockpit voice or flight data
recorders (only flight 93) has been publicly announced to have the
same serial numbers as the recorders on the plane, and asserts that it
proves that they cannot be so identified. There is no evidence that
such a comparison has ever been attempted by anyone who has access to
the actual data, but of course Prien is undeterred in claiming that he
has 'proven' his own assertion.

The fact that the recovered recorders had a chain of custody that was
sufficient for them, and a transcript of the voice recordings, to have
been admitted into evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui as in
fact having been on Flight 93 is of course conveniently ignored by
Prien. The prosecution proved the recorders were authentic to the
satisfaction of the court, else they would not have been admitted into
evidence. I am sure Prien has an argument for this, but the fact
remains that the authenticity of the recorders has been adjudicated in
a court of law. The trial exhibits can be found here:

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/

So we have your assertion against my proof. Of course it matters not,
because even if this evidence is released, or had been released, you
would still claim it was false anyway. There is no evidence or
standard of proof you would accept as valid, therefore, the proof you
demand cannot ever be supplied, and thus you always 'prevail'. Yet you
have the temerity to actually proclaim yourself superior to others.

Your assertions above are just more examples of the exact mistake you
made, and continue to make, regarding Baden's aspiration testimony.
Baden testified that he would expect to see aspiration, and there was
none. You somehow conclude that (paraphrase) "I would expect to see
aspiration if the victim was alive" and "There was no aspiration"
somehow means "There must always, 100% of the time in every possible
circumstance that could ever possibly occur be aspiration if the
victim was alive" and since none was found, then Nicole was dead when
her throat was cut.

Of course, whether or not Nicole was alive when her throat was cut has
no bearing on whether or not Orenthal James Simpson caused her death,
but that is irrelevant to Prien. Since he alone defines what
constitutes victory, he is always victorious.

He's a legend in his own mind.

Ragnar
Puma
2010-09-24 21:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
<snip>
Post by p***@aol.com
That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you. rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened. I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did. I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.
Nice try. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact
that no public announcement has ever been made as to whether any parts
no public announcement of such a match (or attempt to match) has ever
been made. It does not prove that such a match has been attempted and
failed, not even that such a match has ever been attempted. It proves
nothing except that we have no evidence of a match of serial numbers,
positive or negative.
You assert that this match cannot be made, and your proof is that
since no one has ever released evidence that the serial numbers match,
then they cannot match.
By your logic, since you have never publicly posted your birth
certificate to this forum, it means you cannot prove you were ever
born, and in fact it proves that you are not alive. See how that
works?
Post by p***@aol.com
Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes.  Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified.  But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response.  While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation.  You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument.  Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron.  Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.
Here we see the logic twisting of Prien on full display. He takes one
fact, that none of the recovered cockpit voice or flight data
recorders (only flight 93) has been publicly announced to have the
same serial numbers as the recorders on the plane, and asserts that it
proves that they cannot be so identified. There is no evidence that
such a comparison has ever been attempted by anyone who has access to
the actual data, but of course Prien is undeterred in claiming that he
has 'proven' his own assertion.
The fact that the recovered recorders had a chain of custody that was
sufficient for them, and a transcript of the voice recordings, to have
been admitted into evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui as in
fact having been on Flight 93 is of course conveniently ignored by
Prien. The prosecution proved the recorders were authentic to the
satisfaction of the court, else they would not have been admitted into
evidence. I am sure Prien has an argument for this, but the fact
remains that the authenticity of the recorders has been adjudicated in
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/
So we have your assertion against my proof. Of course it matters not,
because even if this evidence is released, or had been released, you
would still claim it was false anyway. There is no evidence or
standard of proof you would accept as valid, therefore, the proof you
demand cannot ever be supplied, and thus you always 'prevail'. Yet you
have the temerity to actually proclaim yourself superior to others.
Your assertions above are just more examples of the exact mistake you
made, and continue to make, regarding Baden's aspiration testimony.
Baden testified that he would expect to see aspiration, and there was
none. You somehow conclude that (paraphrase) "I would expect to see
aspiration if the victim was alive" and "There was no aspiration"
somehow means "There must always, 100% of the time in every possible
circumstance that could ever possibly occur be aspiration if the
victim was alive" and since none was found, then Nicole was dead when
her throat was cut.
Of course, whether or not Nicole was alive when her throat was cut has
no bearing on whether or not Orenthal James Simpson caused her death,
but that is irrelevant to Prien. Since he alone defines what
constitutes victory, he is always victorious.
He's a legend in his own mind.
Ragnar
Ragnar: May Odin be with you!

You have devoted WAAAAAAY more time to reputing the Prien-ster than
should be devoted. I'm sure a gentleman and scholar such as yourself
could find more productive ways to spend some time.

I think I've hit on the reality that is the enigma that is Prien. He
truly DOES inhabit a different world. Parallel universe or different
dimension (mentally produced, of course. He ain't that smart to actually
find another dimension) he lives apart from other humans' reality.

The sky really IS a different color for him, as is all else on Earth.
He's "special." Yep, riding-the-short-bus special.

As you state, there is nothing, no time, no how that would ever convince
it of the truth. Our truth and its truth are two different things. So, no
cigar! You're right. It's wrong yet it will never know this due to its
alternative reality.

But damn good try.

Prien -- read Ragnar's post. Check the website he gave and re-check the
one I gave you. Come towards the light, Prien.

If not, go away. It's been real and it's been fun -- but it hasn't been
real fun. Go away.

Puma -- Prien's Bitch-Master
Ragnar
2010-09-26 03:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
<snip>
Post by p***@aol.com
That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you.  rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened.  I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did.  I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.
Nice try. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact
that no public announcement has ever been made as to whether any parts
no public announcement of such a match (or attempt to match) has ever
been made. It does not prove that such a match has been attempted and
failed, not even that such a match has ever been attempted. It proves
nothing except that we have no evidence of a match of serial numbers,
positive or negative.
You assert that this match cannot be made, and your proof is that
since no one has ever released evidence that the serial numbers match,
then they cannot match.
By your logic, since you have never publicly posted your birth
certificate to this forum, it means you cannot prove you were ever
born, and in fact it proves that you are not alive. See how that
works?
Post by p***@aol.com
Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes.  Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified.  But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response.  While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation.  You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument.  Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron.  Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.
Here we see the logic twisting of Prien on full display. He takes one
fact, that none of the recovered cockpit voice or flight data
recorders (only flight 93) has been publicly announced to have the
same serial numbers as the recorders on the plane, and asserts that it
proves that they cannot be so identified. There is no evidence that
such a comparison has ever been attempted by anyone who has access to
the actual data, but of course Prien is undeterred in claiming that he
has 'proven' his own assertion.
The fact that the recovered recorders had a chain of custody that was
sufficient for them, and a transcript of the voice recordings, to have
been admitted into evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui as in
fact having been on Flight 93 is of course conveniently ignored by
Prien. The prosecution proved the recorders were authentic to the
satisfaction of the court, else they would not have been admitted into
evidence. I am sure Prien has an argument for this, but the fact
remains that the authenticity of the recorders has been adjudicated in
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/
So we have your assertion against my proof. Of course it matters not,
because even if this evidence is released, or had been released, you
would still claim it was false anyway. There is no evidence or
standard of proof you would accept as valid, therefore, the proof you
demand cannot ever be supplied, and thus you always 'prevail'. Yet you
have the temerity to actually proclaim yourself superior to others.
Your assertions above are just more examples of the exact mistake you
made, and continue to make, regarding Baden's aspiration testimony.
Baden testified that he would expect to see aspiration, and there was
none. You somehow conclude that (paraphrase) "I would expect to see
aspiration if the victim was alive" and "There was no aspiration"
somehow means "There must always, 100% of the time in every possible
circumstance that could ever possibly occur be aspiration if the
victim was alive" and since none was found, then Nicole was dead when
her throat was cut.
Of course, whether or not Nicole was alive when her throat was cut has
no bearing on whether or not Orenthal James Simpson caused her death,
but that is irrelevant to Prien. Since he alone defines what
constitutes victory, he is always victorious.
He's a legend in his own mind.
Ragnar
Ragnar: May Odin be with you!
You have devoted WAAAAAAY more time to reputing the Prien-ster than
should be devoted. I'm sure a gentleman and scholar such as yourself
could find more productive ways to spend some time.
I think I've hit on the reality that is the enigma that is Prien. He
truly DOES inhabit a different world. Parallel universe or different
dimension (mentally produced, of course. He ain't that smart to actually
find another dimension) he lives apart from other humans' reality.
The sky really IS a different color for him, as is all else on Earth.
He's "special." Yep, riding-the-short-bus special.
As you state, there is nothing, no time, no how that would ever convince
it of the truth. Our truth and its truth are two different things. So, no
cigar! You're right. It's wrong yet it will never know this due to its
alternative reality.
But damn good try.
Prien -- read Ragnar's post. Check the website he gave and re-check the
one I gave you. Come towards the light, Prien.
If not, go away. It's been real and it's been fun -- but it hasn't been
real fun. Go away.
Puma -- Prien's Bitch-Master
Perhaps I spent too much effort on Prien, but there is always the hope
that he will one day awake from his stupor and understand that
sometimes things really are as they seem, and that the levels of
subterfuge that some seem to find in everything are simply artifacts
of their fevered imaginations. No matter how heinous each of these
acts might have been, another nation could have attacked us by
surprise in 1941, a lone nut really could have killed the President in
1963, and a group of fanatics armed with box cutters really could
hijack planes and take down buildings in 2001. None of these acts
required a vast conspiracy, a faceless cabal of shadowy operatives
representing some unholy alliance of the intelligence community,
military, government and industry. They just required an individual or
group determined to carry out an act for which the powers that be were
unprepared.

Sometimes **** just happens. And it's not because of the Masons, or
the Bilderbergs, or the Knights Templar, the Trilateral Commission, or
the Council on Foreign Relations. Do conspiracies exist? O course they
do. Do governments, including our own, act unlawfully? Frequently. Are
false flag operations sometimes carried out? Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean that every attack is an inside job, every assassination a
coup, or every terrorist act an attempt to establish a New World
Order.

And of course, sometimes narcissistic former athletes with jealousy
issues and cocaine habits who have a history of domestic violence do
kill their wives. Not to affect race relations in America, but simply
because they are flawed human beings.

Ragnar
Puma
2010-09-26 15:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Perhaps I spent too much effort on Prien, but there is always the hope
that he will one day awake from his stupor and understand that
sometimes things really are as they seem, and that the levels of
subterfuge that some seem to find in everything are simply artifacts
of their fevered imaginations.
[...]
Oh, I guarantee you pretty much spent too much time on Prien. It will
never "get it" even with the well-made case you've made. Its mind is
incapable. Genetic? Chemical? Frequent concussions? Who knows the reason?
But it just can't absorb reality as normal humans do. Nice try, though.
Post by Ragnar
Sometimes **** just happens. And it's not because of the Masons, or
the Bilderbergs, or the Knights Templar, the Trilateral Commission, or
the Council on Foreign Relations. Do conspiracies exist? O course they
do. Do governments, including our own, act unlawfully? Frequently. Are
false flag operations sometimes carried out? Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean that every attack is an inside job, every assassination a
coup, or every terrorist act an attempt to establish a New World
Order.
You forgot the Illuminati. But good points and I applaud you for doing
some sort of civic duty by trying. I truly hold out NO hope that Prien
will ever -- EVER -- get it. I think it's mentally challenged due to its
job as a human punching-bag all these years.
Post by Ragnar
And of course, sometimes narcissistic former athletes with jealousy
issues and cocaine habits who have a history of domestic violence do
kill their wives. Not to affect race relations in America, but simply
because they are flawed human beings.
Ragnar
Interesting. Whomever could you be refering to ... ? ;-)

Puma -- Piling On
p***@aol.com
2010-09-29 01:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Perhaps I spent too much effort on Prien, but there is always the hope
that he will one day awake from his stupor and understand that
sometimes things really are as they seem, and that the levels of
subterfuge that some seem to find in everything are simply artifacts
of their fevered imaginations.
[...]
Oh, I guarantee you pretty much spent too much time on Prien. It will
never "get it" even with the well-made case you've made. Its mind is
incapable. Genetic? Chemical? Frequent concussions? Who knows the reason?
But it just can't absorb reality as normal humans do. Nice try, though.
Post by Ragnar
Sometimes **** just happens. And it's not because of the Masons, or
the Bilderbergs, or the Knights Templar, the Trilateral Commission, or
the Council on Foreign Relations. Do conspiracies exist? O course they
do. Do governments, including our own, act unlawfully? Frequently. Are
false flag operations sometimes carried out? Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean that every attack is an inside job, every assassination a
coup, or every terrorist act an attempt to establish a New World
Order.
You forgot the Illuminati. But good points and I applaud you for doing
some sort of civic duty by trying. I truly hold out NO hope that Prien
will ever -- EVER -- get it. I think it's mentally challenged due to its
job as a human punching-bag all these years.
Post by Ragnar
And of course, sometimes narcissistic former athletes with jealousy
issues and cocaine habits who have a history of domestic violence do
kill their wives. Not to affect race relations in America, but simply
because they are flawed human beings.
Ragnar
Interesting. Whomever could you be refering to ... ?  ;-)
Puma -- Piling On
Idiots enjoying a circle jerk.Prien
Ragnar
2010-09-30 01:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Perhaps I spent too much effort on Prien, but there is always the hope
that he will one day awake from his stupor and understand that
sometimes things really are as they seem, and that the levels of
subterfuge that some seem to find in everything are simply artifacts
of their fevered imaginations.
[...]
Oh, I guarantee you pretty much spent too much time on Prien. It will
never "get it" even with the well-made case you've made. Its mind is
incapable. Genetic? Chemical? Frequent concussions? Who knows the reason?
But it just can't absorb reality as normal humans do. Nice try, though.
Post by Ragnar
Sometimes **** just happens. And it's not because of the Masons, or
the Bilderbergs, or the Knights Templar, the Trilateral Commission, or
the Council on Foreign Relations. Do conspiracies exist? O course they
do. Do governments, including our own, act unlawfully? Frequently. Are
false flag operations sometimes carried out? Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean that every attack is an inside job, every assassination a
coup, or every terrorist act an attempt to establish a New World
Order.
You forgot the Illuminati. But good points and I applaud you for doing
some sort of civic duty by trying. I truly hold out NO hope that Prien
will ever -- EVER -- get it. I think it's mentally challenged due to its
job as a human punching-bag all these years.
Post by Ragnar
And of course, sometimes narcissistic former athletes with jealousy
issues and cocaine habits who have a history of domestic violence do
kill their wives. Not to affect race relations in America, but simply
because they are flawed human beings.
Ragnar
Interesting. Whomever could you be refering to ... ?  ;-)
Puma -- Piling On
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.

But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.

John
Puma
2010-09-30 14:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a
hand/glove thing, nonetheless. I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.

Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.

"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...

I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!

Puma
Ragnar
2010-10-03 21:13:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a  
hand/glove thing, nonetheless.  I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.
Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.
"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...
I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!
Puma
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.

Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.

John

P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).
Puma
2010-10-04 14:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.
I did not know that. I learned something. Think Prien will?
Post by Ragnar
Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.
John
P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).
Saying Prien "will reveal his true charcter" assumes he *has* character to
start off with. Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with what you say.

Could Prien be a mysoginist, too? Hmmm ...

Puma (the male kind ;)
p***@aol.com
2010-10-05 01:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.
I did not know that. I learned something. Think Prien will?
Post by Ragnar
Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.
John
P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).
Saying Prien "will reveal his true charcter" assumes he *has* character to
start off with. Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with what you say.
Could Prien be a mysoginist, too? Hmmm ...
Puma (the male kind ;)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually, the brain dead idt kind. I also see you have totally
conceded defeat by being unable to utter even a word that p[urports to
prove any of your claims. :ike Griffin, you have deteriotrated int
that brain dead moron mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed,
NoJ imbecile who continues to be blasted into oblivion by the
invincible


Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-10-05 01:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a  
hand/glove thing, nonetheless.  I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.
Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.
"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...
I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!
Puma
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.
Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.
John
P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It is you who reveal the schildish churlishness and empty rhetoric you
pst in response that is entirely lacking in reason, logic or evidence
that address the my dem,=molition opf yopur cliches you produced that
prported to validate your claim but merely proved you lacked active
brain cells.

Nor do I see why my referring to you as a woman was in any way
denigrading your responses. I certainly did not put it in quotes.
Nor do I see why women cannopt have opinions and can reason as well as
any man. I simly mistook you for another poster who was a woman. You
must, however, have serious doubts of your own masculnity if my
incorrect refernce evokes such a heated response. It does, however,
enable you to switch the subject away from topics and issues that are
are cleary unable to address with evidence, logic or reason. But so
say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ already
says it all. And until you manage to present geuinr authenticated
evidence that substantiates your babbling, you will forever remai you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible


Prien
Puma
2010-10-05 14:30:03 UTC
Permalink
"***@aol.com" <***@aol.com> wrote in news:4f3b57ee-f388-4920-bf66-***@c32g2000vbq.googlegroups.com:

[...] snipped rambling delusion
Post by p***@aol.com
But so
say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ already
says it all. And until you manage to present geuinr authenticated
evidence that substantiates your babbling, you will forever remai you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
First off -- STFU! You are a moron who seems infatuated with its own lame,
fact-free ramblings. Like one who is in love with the sound of their own
voice, you seem in love with the typed results of your own mental
deficiency.

That said, nice name-calling. It's so adult.

Argument with a fool who makes its own rules and also refuses to understand
facts when presented is an impossible situation. You are the mule that even
a 2X4 across the skull wouldn't divert its attention.

You are hopeless and WRONG.

Go study.

Puma -- King of Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-10-16 00:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
[...] snipped rambling delusion
Post by p***@aol.com
But so
say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ already
says it all.  And until you manage to present geuinr authenticated
evidence that substantiates your babbling, you will forever remai you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
First off -- STFU! You are a moron who seems infatuated with its own lame,
fact-free ramblings. Like one who is in love with the sound of their own
voice, you seem in love with the typed results of your own mental
deficiency.
That said, nice name-calling. It's so adult.
Argument with a fool who makes its own rules and also refuses to understand
facts when presented is an impossible situation. You are the mule that even
a 2X4 across the skull wouldn't divert its attention.
You are hopeless and WRONG.
Go study.
Puma -- King of Prien
And yet, aside from nothing but name calling, you cannot provide a
single fact that substantiates even a teeny weeny portion of your
claims. Just nothing but Bozobrubles. Not have I ever simply tooted
my horn. I provided facts and based arguments they substantie, and
have simply challenged you to provide the tiniest bit of evidence that
is necessary to subtantiate your claims. You have failed every
challenge, so until you provide the evidence necessary to estabish by
the srially numbered parts that are documetned to have been installed
in the planes that crashed that positively identify them, you remain
that brain dead moron mongoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty headed,
NoJ imbecile who continues to be blasted into oblivion by the
invincible

Prien
Ragnar
2010-10-25 02:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a  
hand/glove thing, nonetheless.  I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.
Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.
"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...
I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!
Puma
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.
Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.
John
P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It is you who reveal the schildish churlishness and empty rhetoric you
pst in response that is entirely lacking in reason, logic or evidence
that address the my dem,=molition opf yopur cliches you produced that
prported to validate your claim but merely proved you lacked active
brain cells.
Nor do I see why my referring to you as a woman was in any way
denigrading your responses.  I certainly did not put it in quotes.
Nor do I see why women cannopt have opinions and can reason as well as
any man.  I simly mistook you for another poster who was a woman.  You
must, however, have serious doubts of your own masculnity if my
incorrect refernce evokes such a heated response.  It does, however,
enable you to switch the subject away from topics and issues that are
are cleary unable to address with evidence, logic or reason.  But so
say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ already
says it all.  And until you manage to present geuinr authenticated
evidence that substantiates your babbling, you will forever remai you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
I make reference to your

Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)

"But so say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ
already
says it all."

There is not a single post I have ever made in which I have alluded to
OJ's guilt for the Bundy murders having anything whatsoever to do with
his race. OJ's race has absolutely nothing to do with his
responsibility for the Bundy murders. He could be any race, and
gender, any age, any occupation, etc, and he would still be guilty of
these murders. Race is an irrelevant construct introduced by the
Defense to obscure the fact that one particular human being with one
particular genotype committed these murders. The name of this
individual is OJ Simpson.

That you would automatically label a NO-J as racist simply reveals
your inherent bias. For you this case has never been about the
identity of the perpetrator or perpetrators(s) of this crime but
instead about your irrational conspiracy theories about these murders
being part of a massive plot to derail race relations in the US. You
have never simply followed the evidence in the case looking for truth,
but instead have imprinted your paranoid theories on the case and then
interpreted the evidence accordingly. You 'know' what happened, hence
the explanations must all be false because they don't fit your
predetermined reality. You latch on to minutiae in the evidence,
misinterpret it, and attempt to show how it supports your position
when in fact it cannot because your position was developed completely
independent of any evidence. That is why no standard of proof is ever
deemed to be acceptable to you: because it isn't about proof, but
rather about reality and your definition of the same.

That is why you resort to mischaracterizations of the arguments of
others, why you concoct standards of proof specific to (and
accountable only to) yourself, and dismiss the facts stated by others
as "bozoburbles" and "circle jerks": your position is not based upon
any objective standard of reality. You decide the answer, then frame
the question accordingly.

Ragnar
Puma
2010-10-25 14:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
Have you noticed that Prien hasn't posted for quite a while? Maybe his
momma (or his handlers...) won't let him get online. It's been weeks.
Perhaps he's in solitary confinement? Restraints? Haldol?

Oh, the irony!

Puma
Ragnar
2010-10-27 04:30:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
Have you noticed that Prien hasn't posted for quite a while? Maybe his
momma (or his handlers...) won't let him get online. It's been weeks.
Perhaps he's in solitary confinement? Restraints? Haldol?
Oh, the irony!
Puma
If only we could be so fortunate. Imagine a group in which you had
only rational conversations. It would be.....I don't know what you
would call it. It certainly wouldn't be AFOJS.

Ragnar
Puma
2010-10-27 14:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
innews:2a37d958-f0d5-40c2-b0be-3555
Post by Ragnar
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
Have you noticed that Prien hasn't posted for quite a while? Maybe
his momma (or his handlers...) won't let him get online. It's been
weeks. Perhaps he's in solitary confinement? Restraints? Haldol?
Oh, the irony!
Puma
If only we could be so fortunate. Imagine a group in which you had
only rational conversations. It would be.....I don't know what you
would call it. It certainly wouldn't be AFOJS.
Ragnar
Agreed. AFOJS wasn't rational since I first found it in 1995. And it went
downhill from there! It was always a very predictable bunch.

There were 100% guilty folks and 100% innocent ones. Some said they were
undecided but I never believed those freaks! (haha) AFOJS was totally
black & white with no (or no *believable*) shades of grey.

Puma
p***@aol.com
2010-11-03 21:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
Have you noticed that Prien hasn't posted for quite a while? Maybe his
momma (or his handlers...) won't let him get online. It's been weeks.
Perhaps he's in solitary confinement? Restraints? Haldol?
Oh, the irony!
Puma
If only we could be so fortunate. Imagine a group in which you had
only rational conversations. It would be.....I don't know what you
would call it. It certainly wouldn't be AFOJS.
Ragnar- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
you have no clue what a rational conversation is or you wouldn;t be
engaging in your bozoburbles about OJ did it. I any case, I also
notice you have
still failed to post the evidence necessary to prove your claim that
any of the aircraft that were allegedly hijacked on 911 in fact
crashed at any of the sites that were attacked to establish that 911
wasn't a Reichstag fire as you alleged, so that until you do, you
remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ maggot
wallowing in your racist slime pit.
p***@aol.com
2010-11-03 21:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
Have you noticed that Prien hasn't posted for quite a while? Maybe his
momma (or his handlers...) won't let him get online. It's been weeks.
Perhaps he's in solitary confinement? Restraints? Haldol?
Oh, the irony!
Puma
None of your bozoburbles were worth wasting my time, but don't wory, I
will keep my eye on you and post whenever I fell like it to remind you
that I continue to notice that you have still failed to post the
nevidence necessary to prove that the airtcraft that were allegedly
hijacked on 911 actually crashed at the sites that were attacked. And
until you do, you remain the brain dead moron, mogoloid idiot, feeble
minded, empty headed NO J imbecile who continues to be flogged to
death by the invicible and unassailable

Prien
Puma
2010-11-04 20:52:08 UTC
Permalink
... I continue to notice that you have still failed to post the
nevidence necessary to prove that the airtcraft that were allegedly
hijacked on 911 actually crashed at the sites that were attacked.
No, what you mean to say is "the irrefuteable evidence you've already
posted makes me look like the simple-minded, kool-aid drinking moron that I
am so I will NOT accept what you say."

Repeating your "no evidence" mantra don't make it so, fool.

Whipped, again.

Puma
p***@aol.com
2010-11-06 22:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
... I continue to notice that you have still failed to post the
nevidence necessary to prove that the airtcraft that were allegedly
hijacked on 911 actually crashed at the sites that were attacked.
No, what you mean to say is "the irrefuteable evidence you've already
posted makes me look like the simple-minded, kool-aid drinking moron that I
am so I will NOT accept what you say."
Repeating your "no evidence" mantra don't make it so, fool.
Whipped, again.
Puma
I am repeating my no evidence mantra merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidcence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses. I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it. You continue to fail to prove it.
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed. Instead,
you engage in Bozoburbles and hallucinate that your inability to
provide such evidence doesn't make it so. yOU HAVE SUCH AN EASY
OPPORTUNITY TO MALE IT SO. Your failure to do so is indeed proof that
you rremain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ
maggot pissant
wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be demolished by
the invincible

Prien
Puma
2010-11-07 15:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
I am repeating my no evidence mantra merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidcence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses. I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it.
I have posted numerous times evidence that shows beyond ALL doubt
(except, of course for YOUR personally held delusions) the scientific
facts and proof by professionals that shows the truth of the 9/11
attacks. You just put your fingers in your ears and make noise so you
don't actually receive the information and go back into "loop mode" to
display your inability to accept and understand what really transpired.
Post by p***@aol.com
You continue to fail to prove it.
As do you, I might point out.
Post by p***@aol.com
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed.
No, I have no compulsion to provide what YOU say would be "proof" when
the facts have been so clearly illustrated and you avoid them.
Post by p***@aol.com
wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be demolished by
the invincible
Prien
"Racist slime-pit?" When was race ever introduced? See? You are incapable
of understanding basic English. I've never uttered one word regarding
race -- it is irrelevant, anyway. Fool.

And you need to study up on your words and definitions. "Invincible" is
not the word to describe yourself. More like "incapable" or "completely
moronic" would be more appropriate.

Idiot.

Puma -- the Extraordinary
p***@aol.com
2010-11-18 22:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
I am repeating my no evidence mantra merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidcence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses.  I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it.
I have posted numerous times evidence that shows beyond ALL doubt
(except, of course for YOUR personally held delusions) the scientific
facts and proof by professionals that shows the truth of the 9/11
attacks. You just put your fingers in your ears and make noise so you
don't actually receive the information and go back into "loop mode" to
display your inability to accept and understand what really transpired.
Post by p***@aol.com
You continue to fail to prove it.
As do you, I might point out.
Post by p***@aol.com
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed.
No, I have no compulsion to provide what YOU say would be "proof" when
the facts have been so clearly illustrated and you avoid them.
Post by p***@aol.com
wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be demolished by
the invincible
Prien
"Racist slime-pit?" When was race ever introduced? See? You are incapable
of understanding basic English. I've never uttered one word regarding
race -- it is irrelevant, anyway. Fool.
And you need to study up on your words and definitions. "Invincible" is
not the word to describe yourself. More like "incapable" or "completely
moronic" would be more appropriate.
Idiot.
Puma -- the Extraordinary
Yes, Puma the extraordinary brain dead idiot moron. You have posteed
nothing that hass not already been destroyed by numerour 911 Truth
sites of engineers, military officers, forfighters, etc.

In fact, yesterday's front page picture in the NY Times of the fires
burning throughout the 28 story skyscraper in Shanghai is a complete
factual refutation of your pseudo scientific bozoburbles that WTC7
could ever have collapsed at free fall into its own footprint because
of a few flamelets as it must have if your so called proof were
genuine. And as before, I am not asking for your pseudo scientific
"evidence" that is pure garbage spouted by liars from the government,
I am demanding real genuine authentic proof that positively identifies
the aircraft that crashed at the 911 sites were indeed the ones that
were alleged hijacked.

And despite ll your Bozoburbles, I am repeating my no evidence mantra
merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses. I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it. You continue to fail to prove it.
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed. Instead,
you engage in Bozoburbles and hallucinate that your inability to
provide such evidence doesn't make it so. yOU HAVE SUCH AN EASY
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT SO and beat me that you continue to claim you
have done. Your failure to provide the necessary evidence is indeed
proof that
you remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ
maggot pissant wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be
demolished by
the invincible

Prien
Puma
2010-11-20 15:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
innews:32ebf548-d283-452b-8ad8-baac
Post by p***@aol.com
I am repeating my no evidence mantra merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidcence necessary to prove
your claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses.  I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it.
I have posted numerous times evidence that shows beyond ALL doubt
(except, of course for YOUR personally held delusions) the scientific
facts and proof by professionals that shows the truth of the 9/11
attacks. You just put your fingers in your ears and make noise so you
don't actually receive the information and go back into "loop mode"
to display your inability to accept and understand what really
transpired.
Post by p***@aol.com
You continue to fail to prove it.
As do you, I might point out.
Post by p***@aol.com
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed.
No, I have no compulsion to provide what YOU say would be "proof"
when the facts have been so clearly illustrated and you avoid them.
Post by p***@aol.com
wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be demolished
by the invincible
Prien
"Racist slime-pit?" When was race ever introduced? See? You are
incapable of understanding basic English. I've never uttered one word
regarding race -- it is irrelevant, anyway. Fool.
And you need to study up on your words and definitions. "Invincible"
is not the word to describe yourself. More like "incapable" or
"completely moronic" would be more appropriate.
Idiot.
Puma -- the Extraordinary
Yes, Puma the extraordinary brain dead idiot moron. You have posteed
nothing that hass not already been destroyed by numerour 911 Truth
sites of engineers, military officers, forfighters, etc.
In fact, yesterday's front page picture in the NY Times of the fires
burning throughout the 28 story skyscraper in Shanghai is a complete
factual refutation of your pseudo scientific bozoburbles that WTC7
could ever have collapsed at free fall into its own footprint because
of a few flamelets as it must have if your so called proof were
genuine. And as before, I am not asking for your pseudo scientific
"evidence" that is pure garbage spouted by liars from the government,
I am demanding real genuine authentic proof that positively identifies
the aircraft that crashed at the 911 sites were indeed the ones that
were alleged hijacked.
And despite ll your Bozoburbles, I am repeating my no evidence mantra
merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses. I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it. You continue to fail to prove it.
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed. Instead,
you engage in Bozoburbles and hallucinate that your inability to
provide such evidence doesn't make it so. yOU HAVE SUCH AN EASY
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT SO and beat me that you continue to claim you
have done. Your failure to provide the necessary evidence is indeed
proof that
you remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ
maggot pissant wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be
demolished by
the invincible
Prien
That sure is one hell of a lot of senseless rambling and demands for
things YOU CANNOT AND DO NOT PROVIDE YOURSELF. You're a lunatic.

You provide nothing, dismiss real-world proofs and evidence by reputable
scientific and other academic heavyweights and substitute some crazy-
assed "theories" of your own dementia. Then you launch into government
conspiracy -- the main refuge of the failed and idea-bankrupt fringe.
LUNACY!!!

Go talk to Oliver Stone. You two would be compatible and maybe could
start dating.

Idiot.

Puma the Prien-Master
p***@aol.com
2010-11-29 02:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
innews:32ebf548-d283-452b-8ad8-baac
Post by p***@aol.com
I am repeating my no evidence mantra merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidcence necessary to prove
your claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses.  I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it.
I have posted numerous times evidence that shows beyond ALL doubt
(except, of course for YOUR personally held delusions) the scientific
facts and proof by professionals that shows the truth of the 9/11
attacks. You just put your fingers in your ears and make noise so you
don't actually receive the information and go back into "loop mode"
to display your inability to accept and understand what really
transpired.
Post by p***@aol.com
You continue to fail to prove it.
As do you, I might point out.
Post by p***@aol.com
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed.
No, I have no compulsion to provide what YOU say would be "proof"
when the facts have been so clearly illustrated and you avoid them.
Post by p***@aol.com
wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be demolished
by the invincible
Prien
"Racist slime-pit?" When was race ever introduced? See? You are
incapable of understanding basic English. I've never uttered one word
regarding race -- it is irrelevant, anyway. Fool.
And you need to study up on your words and definitions. "Invincible"
is not the word to describe yourself. More like "incapable" or
"completely moronic" would be more appropriate.
Idiot.
Puma -- the Extraordinary
Yes, Puma the extraordinary brain dead idiot moron.  You have posteed
nothing that hass not already been destroyed by numerour 911 Truth
sites of engineers, military officers, forfighters, etc.
In fact, yesterday's front page picture in the NY Times of the fires
burning throughout the 28 story skyscraper in Shanghai is a complete
factual refutation of your pseudo scientific bozoburbles that WTC7
could ever have collapsed at free fall into its own footprint because
of a few flamelets as it must have if your so called proof were
genuine.  And as before, I am not asking for your pseudo scientific
"evidence" that is pure garbage spouted by liars from the government,
I am demanding real genuine authentic proof that positively identifies
the aircraft that crashed at the 911 sites were indeed the ones that
were alleged hijacked.
And despite ll your Bozoburbles, I am repeating my no evidence mantra
merely points to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses.  I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it.  You continue to fail to prove it.
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed.  Instead,
you engage in Bozoburbles and hallucinate that your inability to
provide such evidence doesn't make it so.  yOU HAVE SUCH AN EASY
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT SO and beat me that you continue to claim you
have done.  Your failure to provide the necessary evidence is indeed
proof that
you remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ
maggot pissant wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be
demolished by
the invincible
Prien
That sure is one hell of a lot of senseless rambling and demands for
things YOU CANNOT AND DO NOT PROVIDE YOURSELF. You're a lunatic.
You provide nothing, dismiss real-world proofs and evidence by reputable
scientific and other academic heavyweights and substitute some crazy-
assed "theories" of your own dementia. Then you launch into government
conspiracy -- the main refuge of the failed and idea-bankrupt fringe.  
LUNACY!!!
Go talk to Oliver Stone. You two would be compatible and maybe could
start dating.
Idiot.
Puma the Prien-Master- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have no reputable scientific or any other heavyweights who
sbscribe to your lunatic conspitacy theory that 19 Arabs hijacked and
crashed 3 airliners into any place, or that the fourth one they
allegedly hijacked crashed anywhere. You indeed have not the
slightest proof that those planes indeed crashed at any of the sites.
And despite all your Bozoburbles, I am repeating my no evidence
mantra
merely to point to your abject
inability to provide a scintilla of evidence necessary to prove your
claim that 911 resulted from the hijacking of four planes that
supposedly caused the collapses. I have repeatedly pointed out the
evidence necessary to prove it. You continue to fail to provide it.
You would, of course provide it in a second had it existed. Instead,
you engage in Bozoburbles and hallucinate that your inability to
provide such evidence doesn't make it so. yOU HAVE SUCH AN EASY
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT SO and beat me that you continue to claim you
have done. Your failure to provide the necessary evidence is indeed
proof that
you remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested NOJ
maggot pissant wallowing in your racist slime pit who continues to be
demolished by
the invincible


Prien

p***@aol.com
2010-11-03 21:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Post by p***@aol.com
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a  
hand/glove thing, nonetheless.  I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.
Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.
"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...
I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!
Puma
Ragnar was also (in a different incarnation) a philosopher who became
a pirate (I sense a theme here) so that he could restore to productive
people that which was taken from them by force.
Regardless, it shows the desperation of Prien, as well as his true
character, that he cannot win an argument on logical grounds and thus
must resort to attempting to (apparently) demean me by referring to me
as 'her'. Why my arguments would be any less valid if in fact I were a
woman simply reveals the childishness of Prien the schoolyard bully,
who somehow thinks that dismissing a valid argument as 'bozoburbles',
or flinging 'insults' (again, why would being female make one any less
of a person, or diminish their argument in any way?), or simply
declaring victory in an argument would be persuasive to anyone above
the second grade (US) or any adult with an IQ above room temperature
if the room in question happened to be a meat locker.
John
P.S. Yes, John is my given name. I think I've stated that here in the
past, but it was back in the day when the group was active. Ragnar is
an alter ego, a sort of nom de plume (or nom de guerre as it were).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It is you who reveal the schildish churlishness and empty rhetoric you
pst in response that is entirely lacking in reason, logic or evidence
that address the my dem,=molition opf yopur cliches you produced that
prported to validate your claim but merely proved you lacked active
brain cells.
Nor do I see why my referring to you as a woman was in any way
denigrading your responses.  I certainly did not put it in quotes.
Nor do I see why women cannopt have opinions and can reason as well as
any man.  I simly mistook you for another poster who was a woman.  You
must, however, have serious doubts of your own masculnity if my
incorrect refernce evokes such a heated response.  It does, however,
enable you to switch the subject away from topics and issues that are
are cleary unable to address with evidence, logic or reason.  But so
say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ already
says it all.  And until you manage to present geuinr authenticated
evidence that substantiates your babbling, you will forever remai you
remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
I make reference to your
Here we see the agenda of Prien on full display. Prien claims to be
all about truth, and facts, and logical arguments, but then this
statement shows his true intent: (spelling and grammatical mistakes
are as in the original)
"But so say that is really an oxymoron because you being a racist NoJ
already
says it all."
There is not a single post I have ever made in which I have alluded to
OJ's guilt for the Bundy murders having anything whatsoever to do with
his race. OJ's race has absolutely nothing to do with his
responsibility for the Bundy murders. He could be any race, and
gender, any age, any occupation, etc, and he would still be guilty of
these murders. Race is an irrelevant construct introduced by the
Defense to obscure the fact that one particular human being with one
particular genotype committed these murders. The name of this
individual is OJ Simpson.
That you would automatically label a NO-J as racist simply reveals
your inherent bias. For you this case has never been about the
identity of the perpetrator or perpetrators(s) of this crime but
instead about your irrational conspiracy theories about these murders
being part of a massive plot to derail race relations in the US. You
have never simply followed the evidence in the case looking for truth,
but instead have imprinted your paranoid theories on the case and then
interpreted the evidence accordingly. You 'know' what happened, hence
the explanations must all be false because they don't fit your
predetermined reality. You latch on to minutiae in the evidence,
misinterpret it, and attempt to show how it supports your position
when in fact it cannot because your position was developed completely
independent of any evidence. That is why no standard of proof is ever
deemed to be acceptable to you: because it isn't about proof, but
rather about reality and your definition of the same.
That is why you resort to mischaracterizations of the arguments of
others, why you concoct standards of proof specific to (and
accountable only to) yourself, and dismiss the facts stated by others
as "bozoburbles" and "circle jerks": your position is not based upon
any objective standard of reality. You decide the answer, then frame
the question accordingly.
Ragnar- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
This is just a further example of NoJ nonsense. First, I don't
concoct archane standards of proof accountable only to me. You
obviously refuse to notice that my standards of proof are and aways
have been based entirely on standards for assessing the evidence that
judge Ito presribed to the jury in a circumstantialcase and the
standards imposed by the Califronia Evidence Code on the requirements
for proving a case. Thse are, of course, matters you strenuously
ignore. For example, all the Mezz witnesses claimed the browns left
bwetween 8:30 and 9:00 pm. Now, the standard Ito set up for
inferences to be drawn were that if one inference from facts points to
guilt while another to innocense, the just MUST draw the innocent
inference. So, if theey left between 8:30 to 9:00, the inference that
sustains guilt is they left at 8:30 to enable Juditha to call by 9:37
that was an essential element of the case. The inference that points
to innocent is they left at 9:00 since both times are within the range
specified by the all the witnesses. I thus draw the inference the
judge required - plus other information and evidcence thatmakes
nonsense of the 9:37 call. You, on the other hand, jump to the
idiotic conclusion that they necessarily left at 8:30. What exce[t
rules you make up justifies drawing the inference they left at 8:30
rather than 9:00 when witnesess specified a time that includes both
point? Pure nonsense.

As for my denouncing your conclusion as being based on racism, only a
congenitally prejudiced nitwad could give credence to the utterly
fraudulent case the proseuction made and claim it was genuine
evidence. I mean finding blood on socks more than 2 moths after the
murders, finding blood on the rear gate three weekslater when the
photo from June 13 that purportedly shows it fails to include the
second drop. When they never tested the blood on the top rung. Then
they found the blood on the console in August. Anyone accepting such
nonsense as genuine evidence has the mentality of a lynch mobber who
was ready to lynch a nigger on exactly the same kind of evidence. So
by your acceting the garbage the prosecution created in tehir
fraudulent case, you have earned the title of a congenitally
prejudiced racists lynch mobber multiple times. And what fully
confirms you have earned the title are your comments to the rejection
of the OJ appeal on a completely bogus conviction in a case in which
he was completely set up and in which the jurors and judge practically
admtted was payback for the Bundy murders. And I also notice you have
still failed to post the evidence necessary to prove your claim that
any of the aircraft that were allegedly hijacked on 911 in fact
crashed at any of the sites that were attacked to establish that 911
wasn't a Rechstag fire as you alleged, so that until you do, you
remain the brain dead moron, mongoloid idiot, pus infested maggot
wallowing in your racist slime pit.

Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-10-05 01:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
That's an interesting take on Prien's mindset. In fact, so BIZARRE, that it
fits Prien and could fit all Pro-j's to a "T". Him more than most but a  
hand/glove thing, nonetheless.  I like it. But this will never end. Nice
try.
Thirteen years is better than nothing and it also give OJ's conviction on
that silly incident a cool "Al Capone and tax evasion" flavor, too.
"Logic not a second language." Good one, I'll have to remember to steal
that from you next time I need a quick zinger. :)
Post by Ragnar
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John
Yes, I'm sure some type of astral projection or time-space continuum
theories could abound. But, after all is said and done, it's just the
ramblings of a self-appointed "genius" who is "invincible." Yeah, right ...
I'm also glad you signed "John" as Prien had taken to referring to you as
"her" which I thought amusing. Everybody (who is anybody) knows "Ragnar"
was Kirk Douglas' sidekick from "The Vikings" and was a ...... DUDE!
Puma
the babbling idots keep stroking each other, but they naturallyhave no
evidence that refutes the complete demolition of their claims. None.
Nada. Nothing. You signing on to "her" comments also provesd that
you are nothing but a pus filled racist maggot who should crawl back
into his slime pit. And until you manage tp produce the evidence that
positively identiofies the planes that crashed by the serially
numberedd parts installed in them, you remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible


Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-10-05 01:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
Perhaps I spent too much effort on Prien, but there is always the hope
that he will one day awake from his stupor and understand that
sometimes things really are as they seem, and that the levels of
subterfuge that some seem to find in everything are simply artifacts
of their fevered imaginations.
[...]
Oh, I guarantee you pretty much spent too much time on Prien. It will
never "get it" even with the well-made case you've made. Its mind is
incapable. Genetic? Chemical? Frequent concussions? Who knows the reason?
But it just can't absorb reality as normal humans do. Nice try, though.
Post by Ragnar
Sometimes **** just happens. And it's not because of the Masons, or
the Bilderbergs, or the Knights Templar, the Trilateral Commission, or
the Council on Foreign Relations. Do conspiracies exist? O course they
do. Do governments, including our own, act unlawfully? Frequently. Are
false flag operations sometimes carried out? Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean that every attack is an inside job, every assassination a
coup, or every terrorist act an attempt to establish a New World
Order.
You forgot the Illuminati. But good points and I applaud you for doing
some sort of civic duty by trying. I truly hold out NO hope that Prien
will ever -- EVER -- get it. I think it's mentally challenged due to its
job as a human punching-bag all these years.
Post by Ragnar
And of course, sometimes narcissistic former athletes with jealousy
issues and cocaine habits who have a history of domestic violence do
kill their wives. Not to affect race relations in America, but simply
because they are flawed human beings.
Ragnar
Interesting. Whomever could you be refering to ... ?  ;-)
Puma -- Piling On
Well, I thought I would try to bring the post to an end with something
that was on topic for the group. Prien apparently thinks the OJ Trial
was the Beer Hall Putsch to 9/11's Reichstag fire, but for those to
whom logic is not a second language this group is still about an
individual who went to prison 13 years late, and for a lesser reason.
But I'm sure Prien also has a theory about how OJ wasn't really in
that hotel room in Vegas.
John- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ragnar proves she is the Bozo brain she has fully proved himself to be
by failing to address my demolition of the tired cliche he tried to
pass of as the proof of his illusions and then simply throws in some
non sequitors that she hopes her feebleminded pals will believe to be
the product of a brain that he lacks.

That the Simpson case was a carefully taught lesson to hate and fear
is the fact of the matter. It worked very well to set him up. He was
equally set up in the las
Vegas case, and foolish to have tried to get his property back. The
scum bag judge who presided over that facr beongs in jail herself for
totally abusing her powers as a judge. But never fear, the truth will
appear. Tat youi declare that this travesty that played out in the
court room finaly puts him behind bars 13 years too lateproves beyobnd
question you are nothing but a yellow bellied scum bag racist pus
filled amggot who should craw back into his slime pit whre you belong.

And BTW, the absence of evidence of aspiration in Nicole is indeed the
evidence of the absence of of the cut throat as a FATAL INJURY. Now,
if you want to prove me wrong, FOIL the autopsy report of the
nicaraguan diplomat in NYC who was murdered by having his throat cut.
Check out whether he aspirated blood if his windpipe was opened like
Nicole's and he breathed long enough to aspirate blood, the twin
conditions Baden specified for when the victim of such injuries would
aspirate blood. Then post the results, and we will see who had the
right take on the issue.

But don't trty any funny stuff by posting false autopsy reports
because I can assure you I will check it out. You can also be sure
that I will get the genuine results.

So unless and until you can post genuine evidence that substantiats
your your claims, you are just anoher babbling brain dead moron
mongoloid idiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible


Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-09-29 01:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by Ragnar
<snip>
Post by p***@aol.com
That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you.  rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened.  I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did.  I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.
Nice try. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact
that no public announcement has ever been made as to whether any parts
no public announcement of such a match (or attempt to match) has ever
been made. It does not prove that such a match has been attempted and
failed, not even that such a match has ever been attempted. It proves
nothing except that we have no evidence of a match of serial numbers,
positive or negative.
You assert that this match cannot be made, and your proof is that
since no one has ever released evidence that the serial numbers match,
then they cannot match.
By your logic, since you have never publicly posted your birth
certificate to this forum, it means you cannot prove you were ever
born, and in fact it proves that you are not alive. See how that
works?
Post by p***@aol.com
Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes.  Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified.  But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response.  While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation.  You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument.  Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron.  Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.
Here we see the logic twisting of Prien on full display. He takes one
fact, that none of the recovered cockpit voice or flight data
recorders (only flight 93) has been publicly announced to have the
same serial numbers as the recorders on the plane, and asserts that it
proves that they cannot be so identified. There is no evidence that
such a comparison has ever been attempted by anyone who has access to
the actual data, but of course Prien is undeterred in claiming that he
has 'proven' his own assertion.
The fact that the recovered recorders had a chain of custody that was
sufficient for them, and a transcript of the voice recordings, to have
been admitted into evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui as in
fact having been on Flight 93 is of course conveniently ignored by
Prien. The prosecution proved the recorders were authentic to the
satisfaction of the court, else they would not have been admitted into
evidence. I am sure Prien has an argument for this, but the fact
remains that the authenticity of the recorders has been adjudicated in
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/
So we have your assertion against my proof. Of course it matters not,
because even if this evidence is released, or had been released, you
would still claim it was false anyway. There is no evidence or
standard of proof you would accept as valid, therefore, the proof you
demand cannot ever be supplied, and thus you always 'prevail'. Yet you
have the temerity to actually proclaim yourself superior to others.
Your assertions above are just more examples of the exact mistake you
made, and continue to make, regarding Baden's aspiration testimony.
Baden testified that he would expect to see aspiration, and there was
none. You somehow conclude that (paraphrase) "I would expect to see
aspiration if the victim was alive" and "There was no aspiration"
somehow means "There must always, 100% of the time in every possible
circumstance that could ever possibly occur be aspiration if the
victim was alive" and since none was found, then Nicole was dead when
her throat was cut.
Of course, whether or not Nicole was alive when her throat was cut has
no bearing on whether or not Orenthal James Simpson caused her death,
but that is irrelevant to Prien. Since he alone defines what
constitutes victory, he is always victorious.
He's a legend in his own mind.
Ragnar
Ragnar: May Odin be with you!
You have devoted WAAAAAAY more time to reputing the Prien-ster than
should be devoted. I'm sure a gentleman and scholar such as yourself
could find more productive ways to spend some time.
I think I've hit on the reality that is the enigma that is Prien. He
truly DOES inhabit a different world. Parallel universe or different
dimension (mentally produced, of course. He ain't that smart to actually
find another dimension) he lives apart from other humans' reality.
The sky really IS a different color for him, as is all else on Earth.
He's "special." Yep, riding-the-short-bus special.
As you state, there is nothing, no time, no how that would ever convince
it of the truth. Our truth and its truth are two different things. So, no
cigar! You're right. It's wrong yet it will never know this due to its
alternative reality.
But damn good try.
Prien -- read Ragnar's post. Check the website he gave and re-check the
one I gave you. Come towards the light, Prien.
If not, go away. It's been real and it's been fun -- but it hasn't been
real fun. Go away.
Puma -- Prien's Bitch-Master- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Her drivel about the absence of evidence not being evidence of absence
is just proof of how dimwitted NoJa's are as I fully explained in
response to het post. Youi rise no taller than she does, because it
is obvious to any thinkin person that the absence of ANY evidence at
the crtash site of the presence of the planes that took as Flights 11
and 175 is indeed evidence of the absence of those planes at those
crash sites as several air crash investigators have pointed out.
Inxdeed, an Air Force colonel crash site investigator declared, never
in the history of investigating air crahses where investigators had
access to the crash site did they fail to find any serially numbered
parts that positively identified the aircraft frame. Indeed, a couple
of years ago the remains of a B17 crew shot down over Normandy in 1944
were identified based on the srial numbers of the machine guns that
were found at the crash site.

So yourdrivel that the absence of evidence means nothing only continue
to prove that you are unable to find a single part that identifies any
of the panes that crashed at the 911 sites, and that the faiure to
find any such parts is positive proof that the planes that took off as
those flgihts did not crash there.

You are, however, absolutey correct that you and I inhabit different
universes. You skulk around inthe universe of lies, illusion,
falsehood, idiocy and deceit, while I stand on the solid groundf of
truth and justice. And as long as you continue to Bozoburble about
the planes that allegedly crashed cauing the collapse of the buiolding
without providing the necessary evidence the positively identifies the
crashed planesas the ones the took off that were purportedly hijacked,
you remain you remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible


Prien
Puma
2010-09-29 20:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
You are, however, absolutey correct that you and I inhabit different
universes. You skulk around inthe universe of lies, illusion,
falsehood, idiocy and deceit, while I stand on the solid groundf of
truth and justice. And as long as you continue to Bozoburble about
the planes that allegedly crashed cauing the collapse of the buiolding
without providing the necessary evidence the positively identifies the
crashed planesas the ones the took off that were purportedly hijacked,
you remain you remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
Wrong!

No, Prien, you inhabit a separate world of complete confounded idiocy,
devoid of logic, truth, reason and common sense.

You are a fool. A gullible one at that and you are obviously looking in a
mirror.

I served your lunch and Ragnar ate it. You lose!

Puma -- Prien-master
p***@aol.com
2010-10-05 01:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Puma
Post by p***@aol.com
You are, however, absolutey correct that you and I inhabit different
universes.  You skulk around inthe universe of lies, illusion,
falsehood, idiocy and deceit, while I stand on the solid groundf of
truth and justice.  And as long as you continue to Bozoburble about
the planes that allegedly crashed cauing the collapse of the buiolding
without providing the necessary evidence the positively identifies the
crashed planesas the ones the took off that were purportedly hijacked,
you remain  you remain the brain dead moron
mongoloididiot, feeble minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible
Prien
Wrong!
No, Prien, you inhabit a separate world of complete confounded idiocy,
devoid of logic, truth, reason and common sense.
You are a fool. A gullible one at that and you are obviously looking in a
mirror.
I served your lunch and Ragnar ate it. You lose!
Puma -- Prien-master
Yeah, you are your own shit. You have still completely failed to meet
the challenge of producing evidence that serially numbred parts that
are documented to have been installed on the planes that allegedly
crashed into the WTC were actually found at the crash site that
psotively identified those planes. You and youur pal Ragnar are both
obviously too stupid to understand the import ofyour failure, so let
me help you out a bit there. For according to Col. George Nelson, who
during 30 years of service as an aircraft accident investigator baord
member, noted that "with all the evidence readily available in the
Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could oly
conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as
alleged,,,In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I
NEVER witnessed NOR EVEN HEARD of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage
was accessible, that prevented investigator from finding enough hard
evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific
registration number of the aircraft - and in most cases rthe precise
cause of the accident." Except of course in the case of 911, where
not a single crashed aircraft has been positively identidfied from the
serially numbered parts that are documented to have been installed in
the aircraft the crashed. There should have been dozens if not
hundreds of such parts. Your inabilit to produce evidence the
government found a single scuh part at any crash site proves beyobnd
doubt that your claims are all pure hot air. It is you who is totally
bereft of all knowledge, reason, and a brain.

But let me also make clear exactly why your reliance on Ragnars tired
cliche about the absence of evidence not being evidence of absence
shows that both of you are too stupid to understand or comprhend
anything that required knowledge and reason. The phrase captures a
partial truth, but your iamgining that it reflects that entire truth
prioves both of you are dumber than brain dead morons. Since you will
never be able to figure out what's what. let me again help you out.

First, the cliche is entirely irrelevant with respce to the
significance of the absence of evidence under circumstanceswhen the
occurrence of the event directly produces the evidence that manifest
that occurrence, such that you can't have one without the other. Sort
of like the tow side of one coin so that the absence of evidence of a
tail on a coin is clerar cut evidence of the absence of a genuine
coin. Similarly, in an air crash, the the crash of the aircraft
creates the debris that must ecessarily be amde of of the parts of the
plane that crashed. The debris to be found at the crash site must
then necessarily be integral partof the plane that were directly
produced by the break up of the aircraft that resulted from the
crash. Just like the two sides of one coin, you can't have an air
craft crash site that contains debris that were the integral prtio of
the crashed plane. That debris then containeds the hundred of
serially nubered parts that are documented to have been installed in
the crashed aircraft the popsitively identify it. in cases such as
this, the evidebnce of the absence of plane parts at the crash site
that identify the crashed plane is indeed dispositve proof of the
absence of that aircraft from the crash site such that it was not the
one that crashed or the parts would psotiviely identify it.

The ends your Bozoborbles about the lack of such parts being
meaningless. Cpl. Nelson's conclusion produces an instant checkmate
to your ameteurish attempts to delve into matters you know absolutely
nothing about as your babblig repeated proves.

Now the partial truth the cliche captures applies in circumstances
when the evidence of an event is not integrally a part of the event
such as each can occur separately and independently. A simple example
is that the absence of evidence of a ticket step for a theater
performance is definitely bnot evicence of absnece from that
performance for the simple reason that the theater goer could have
thrown it away or it was retained by the usher, or whatever, and the
ticket itself may be purchased entirely separate and apart from when
the peformacne occurrs. By exactly the same token however, the
presence of evidence in such situations is also not conclusively
evidence opf presence. The carry the ticket examlple further, having
a ticket stub that purports to be the presence of evidence proving
attendance is not conclusive evidence of presence. If you doubt this,
watch the movie "Sleepers" where the [riest uses phony ticket stubs to
prve he was at a game to provide an alibi for the murderers when none
of them were anywhere near the gamethe night in question.

To bring the matter closer to the Simpson case the absdence of
evidence that Simpson was not at the murder site proves what - that he
weas there? No, because the absence of such evidence would be
undisputed proof of evidence of his absence from the crime scene at
the time of the murders. Moreover, the presence of evidence of his
purported blood drops at the crime scene are also not evidence of his
presence absent solid proof that they were dropped there by him as of
the time of the murders, somethign the prosecution failed abysmally to
establish, especially with Vannatter going around carrying both
Simpson and the blood samples of the victims before any of it was
booked.

So Puma the shit eater has had anopther tasty dinnner served to him.
And yet again, as long as you keep burbling that the purportedly
hijacked passenger planes crashed at the WTC sites and caused the
resulting damages but fasil to produce evidence of thepresence of
serially numbered parts that positively identiofy the crashed
planes, , you remain the brain dead moron mongoloididiot, feeble
minded, empty headed, NoJ imbecile who
continues to be blasted into oblivion by the invincible and
untouchable


Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-09-29 01:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
<snip>
Post by p***@aol.com
That's why the burden of proof for erstablishing the identiofy of the
planes with serially numbered parts that have been documented to have
bene installed in the planes is quarely on you.  rather than provide
that proof, you have feebly sought to shift the burden on me that I
don't have because it is not I who is making the claim that needs to
be proven that it happened.  I am saying the opposte - it didn't
hapen, and the proof is the absence of the evidence necessary to prove
that it did.  I realize that this logic is vastly beyond your
comprehension capabilities, but it sets the record straight about who
is making logical, reasoned arguments, and who is merely fluffing and
puffing into the wind without a shred of evidence to back up his
claims, which turns them into Bozoburbles, or the babblings of a Bozo,
just to clear that up.
Nice try. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact
that no public announcement has ever been made as to whether any parts
no public announcement of such a match (or attempt to match) has ever
been made. It does not prove that such a match has been attempted and
failed, not even that such a match has ever been attempted. It proves
nothing except that we have no evidence of a match of serial numbers,
positive or negative.
You assert that this match cannot be made, and your proof is that
since no one has ever released evidence that the serial numbers match,
then they cannot match.
By your logic, since you have never publicly posted your birth
certificate to this forum, it means you cannot prove you were ever
born, and in fact it proves that you are not alive. See how that
works?
Post by p***@aol.com
Now of course, you have been scouring the records for the proof I have
chellenged you to provide. Your search has, of course, been totally
futile, because the government has failed to identify a single
serially numbered part that matches any that were ever installed in
the crashed planes.  Not even the black boxes that have been recovered
which are definitely unquely numbered for the express purpose of
positively identifying the plane they were on so the crashed plane can
be psotiviely identified.  But rather than admit the fuulity of yoru
search, you resort purtely to name calling as a response.  While you
claim I do exactly the same, you also obviously failed to notice the
vastly different basis for my denunciation.  You, on the one hand,
merelly resort to namecalling as a substitute for an argument.  Were
you to notice, however, I use the denunciations to characterize your
actions and conclusions that are based on the arguments I have made.
Nor, if you notice, have I ever even accused you of simply being a
brain dead moron.  Instead, I have said that unless you provide the
necessary proof, you are a brain dead moron for producing the bablings
that are polluting the ether.
Here we see the logic twisting of Prien on full display. He takes one
fact, that none of the recovered cockpit voice or flight data
recorders (only flight 93) has been publicly announced to have the
same serial numbers as the recorders on the plane, and asserts that it
proves that they cannot be so identified. There is no evidence that
such a comparison has ever been attempted by anyone who has access to
the actual data, but of course Prien is undeterred in claiming that he
has 'proven' his own assertion.
The fact that the recovered recorders had a chain of custody that was
sufficient for them, and a transcript of the voice recordings, to have
been admitted into evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui as in
fact having been on Flight 93 is of course conveniently ignored by
Prien. The prosecution proved the recorders were authentic to the
satisfaction of the court, else they would not have been admitted into
evidence. I am sure Prien has an argument for this, but the fact
remains that the authenticity of the recorders has been adjudicated in
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/
So we have your assertion against my proof. Of course it matters not,
because even if this evidence is released, or had been released, you
would still claim it was false anyway. There is no evidence or
standard of proof you would accept as valid, therefore, the proof you
demand cannot ever be supplied, and thus you always 'prevail'. Yet you
have the temerity to actually proclaim yourself superior to others.
Your assertions above are just more examples of the exact mistake you
made, and continue to make, regarding Baden's aspiration testimony.
Baden testified that he would expect to see aspiration, and there was
none. You somehow conclude that (paraphrase) "I would expect to see
aspiration if the victim was alive" and "There was no aspiration"
somehow means "There must always, 100% of the time in every possible
circumstance that could ever possibly occur be aspiration if the
victim was alive" and since none was found, then Nicole was dead when
her throat was cut.
Of course, whether or not Nicole was alive when her throat was cut has
no bearing on whether or not Orenthal James Simpson caused her death,
but that is irrelevant to Prien. Since he alone defines what
constitutes victory, he is always victorious.
He's a legend in his own mind.
Ragnar- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Here the logic of the NoJ is clearly evident. You cite the tired
cliche that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So in
your twisted logic, the absence of evidence is what - positive proof
of the presence? This idocy is a clever cliche but the product of
dumb thinking. The absence of positive evidence that an event
occurred is, indeed evidence that the event did not occur as the
presence of positive evidence necessary to manifest its occurrence
would establish. Read Arthor conan doyle's Silver Blade and the
significance of the absence of the barking dog where Sherlock shows
how the absence of evidence of the barking sog was evidence of the
absence of a stranger who committed the murders.

The fact is that the absence of a single serially numbered part that
is proved by maintenance records to have been installed in the planes
that allegedly crashed is indeed evidence of the absemnce of those
planes from the crash site. How else are you going to prove that the
plane that crash is indeed the one that took off. How do you know
that another plane wasn't substituted for it when there were five
separate air defense excercises occurring that day which icluded
simulated hijacking of aircraft. But never fear - the mindless NoJ
are here to blubber nonsense that passes for thought by proclaiming
that the absence of evidence that positively identified the planes
that crashed must be proof of the presence of those planes at the
crash site. That's about it, because that's al the proof you have
offered. But the absence of evidence of their presence is, indeed
evidence of their absence from the crash site.

The fact that the governmet produced records that purportedly
established a chain of custody for some metal does not, of course,
prove that the part was ever istalled in any of the crashed planes.
But i guess you skipped that part of logic. The most that chain could
establiash is that the part found at at the crime scene was actually
the one they presentd in court. Do you see the link missing from this
chain? Since a NOj copuld never figure it out, let me help you a bit
- the missing link is the origin of the part and and proof of how it
got to the crime scene. I know that's way too deep for you to grasp,
however, but try.

I am not bothering with the rest of your drvel.

Ragnar again blown to bits by the invincible

Prien
p***@aol.com
2010-09-22 02:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ragnar
Post by Puma
... you indeed have provided
not a scintilla of evidence proving that that planes that took off
that were allegedly hijacked because seerially numbered parts found at
the crash site were documented as having been installed on them whe
they took off, information that would be readily available had your
claim been true
You have provided nothing but laughable and pathetic, sad, self-deluded
musings. You know NOTHING! You have provided NOTHING! You are sick in the
head and have waaaaay too much time.
Your handlers need to keep closer watch over you lest you hurt yourself.
They are leaving the restraints off for too long, allowing you to type this
nonsense.
One again the Puma-genius has bested you and highlighted your mentally
unstable rants.
You lose. I win. Go away.
Puma - the Magnificent
Only Prien could think that 'Bozoburbles' is a logical argument, or
retort, to anything. Then again, only Prien would think any of the
arguments he makes have any point at all. I'm sure even the other
inmates at the asylum know that Prien would need another brain just to
be considered a half-wit.
Ragnar- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Only someone who is bereft of thought could imagine that mere
denunciations and name calling are any kind of argument. But Ragnar,
you have outdone yourself again and proven you have not advanced an
inch beyind the nonsense you spouted years ago rather than address
accurately and with reason any and all arguments that totally
demolished the case against Simpson andf 911 that I have repeatedly
made. Your failure to address any of those issue and relying instead
onb lies, misrepresentation, and falsehoods that you profess to be
arguments keep proving that you have no case. You blew it on the
aspiration issue, just as you are blowing it niow and will keep on
blowing it. Because you afe just another dimwitted, brain dead moron
no=J who keeops being atomized by the invincible.

Prien.
Puma
2010-09-22 14:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@aol.com
Only someone who is bereft of thought could imagine that mere
denunciations and name calling are any kind of argument ... Because you
afe just another dimwitted, brain dead moron
no=J who keeops being atomized by the invincible.
Prien.
Good thing you don't name-call. Nice job. You really are special.

Dimwit.

Puma --Prien-slayer
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